Tom Waits

[jazz2896]

I've recently started listening to Tom Waits after years of reading nothing but positive, glowing reviews about nearly all the material he has ever put out. I finally picked up on the fact that he was heavily inspired by Captain Beefheart, and that made me decide to finally take the plunge, and you know what? I can't say I'm a huge fan of his work.
To me, a lot of it sounds very insincere, and while there are a few songs here and there which I do quite enjoy, the majority of his work, to me, ends up sounding like a forced Captain Beefheart impression over basic blues backing tracks. Does anybody else share this opinion?

[Reid]

Listening to Waits, I never got the impression he was under the influence of Captain Beefheart. The comparisons are superficial at best. Blues influences and gruff vocals. Aside from his bland mid 70s albums, I find Beefheart's music to be much more accomplished and complex. And his lyrics are million miles away from Waits's wordly, low life character portraits.

[Scrotum Scissor]

His first albums weren't 'Beefhearty' at all (I don't think he had discovered that music yet), but an attempt at stageing a ficticious 'bohemian hobo personae' influenced by the aesthetics of the beat movement and the so-called lost generation of the 20s and 30s. Heart of Saturday Night, Small Change and especially Blue Valentine are his finest efforts at this (IMO), but don't expect anything remotely 'avant-garde'.

I still think Swordfishtrombones is a great album, though.

[Facelift]

I've recently started listening to Tom Waits after years of reading nothing but positive, glowing reviews about nearly all the material he has ever put out. I finally picked up on the fact that he was heavily inspired by Captain Beefheart, and that made me decide to finally take the plunge, and you know what? I can't say I'm a huge fan of his work.
To me, a lot of it sounds very insincere, and while there are a few songs here and there which I do quite enjoy, the majority of his work, to me, ends up sounding like a forced Captain Beefheart impression over basic blues backing tracks. Does anybody else share this opinion?

IMO, Tom Waits has one very good album - his first (Closing Time), After that, his music became suffused with this beatnik/hipster persona that he developed. I don't have any use for music like that - if I want to watch a show, I'll go to Broadway.

This is not to say that there aren't songs here and there that I like from Waits, but I couldn't possibly become a fan of someone who is just putting on an act, the way that he does (and pretty one-note act, at that).

Btw - as far as the "Beefhearty" vocals, they were something that he developed in the '80s. While I would not be surprised if he and Beefheart might have have similar inspirations from old blues-men, Waits' music itself and Beefheart's do not have much similarity, IMO.

[thedunno]

Tom Waits is a true classic. For me swordfishtrombones, raindogs and the Black Rider are timeless masterpieces.

I do not think Tom ever sounded like Beefheart at all nor was he ever trying to.

[Dana5140]

I likes 'em. He has produced some truly experimental albums, like Alice and others. But hey, this is still classic:

[jazz2896]

Yeah the Beefheart comparisons are superficial, they're similar in their clangy/noisy sound, but compositionally they couldn't be any more different. I've read multiple places that he made his transition from the earlier barroom type music to the early 80's Swordfishtrombone period after being heavily inspired by Beefheart's music as well. The guy has some great concepts and ideas, but more often than not the delivery ends up sounding fake and acted out instead of sincere.

[Jay.Dee]

For me his classic 70s stuff is a great and pretty unique singer-songwriter effort, while in the 80s he became a bit more... mmmm... "progressive". His live album "Big Time" (recorded in 1987, actually the soundtrack of a concert video/movie) summing up the trilogy of "Swordfishtrombones", "Rain Dogs" and "Franks Wild Years" is absolutely fantastic, backed by a great touring band (including Marc Ribot on guitar).



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Ti...Waits_album%29

[JJ88]

His Asylum stuff was indeed quite different. On the first album Closing Time especially he really sounds like a different vocalist.

[Dave (in MA)]

Listening to Waits, I never got the impression he was under the influence of Captain Beefheart.

Starting with Heartattack and Vine he began to show a bit of Beefheart influence in his work but wasn't even familiar with CB prior to that despite having the same manager/label for a period of time. He's admitted as much in interviews. He also became somewhat friendly with CB and they'd talk on the phone.

As for a "forced Captain Beefheart impression", there were those who said similar things about CB and people like Howlin' Wolf and Son House. I really don't care much for the stuff Waits did prior to Swordfishtrombones (I think that was the earliest one that I like).

[Conti]

The only Tom Waits record I own and have ever listened to is Blood Money. I like it a lot. I can definitely hear a strong Beefheartian influence, but would never put both in the same bag.

[Baribrotzer]

He also has some degree of influence from Harry Partch, the eccentric classical composer and former Depression hobo. And at one point his band included Francis Thumm, Partch's former keyboardist.

[chalkpie]

I Love Waits - honestly probably more so than 80% of the stuff discussed on this site. I prefer his "rebirth" at Swordfish and on, but I do appreciate and like many of his older albums like Closing Time and Small Change. If you think he is a merely a Beefheart rip-off over a blues track, then you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but as as a hardcore fan I will politely and utterly disagree with that description. He is more diverse than you can imagine and he doesn't have just one voice, but multiple voices like an actor (which he is of course). I truly love many of his albums, but gun to me head, my top five (in no order) would be:

Swordfishtrombones
Mule Variations
Franks Wild Years
The Black Rider
Blood Money

[chalkpie]

He also has some degree of influence from Harry Partch, the eccentric classical composer and former Depression hobo. And at one point his band included Francis Thumm, Partch's former keyboardist.

Yes and yes.

[Dave (in MA)]

Bone Machine would be my first pick.

[The Dark Elf]

Tom Waits said himself that Beefheart was a great influence (and yes, I hear it in his music often). Of the Captain, Waits said: "Once you've heard Beefheart, it's hard to wash him out of your clothes. It stains, like coffee or blood."

A few of my Waits favorites:

Swordfishtrombones
Bone Machine
Mule Variations
Bad As Me

[chalkpie]

There's a house on my block
that's abandoned and cold
Folks moved out of it a
long time ago
and they took all their things
and they never came back
Looks like it's haunted
with the windows all cracked
and everyone calls it
the house, the house where
nobody lives.

Once it held laughter
Once it held dreams
Did they throw it away
Did they know what it means
Did someone's heart break
or did someone do somebody wrong?

Well the paint was all cracked
It was peeled off of the wood
Papers were stacked on the porch
where I stood
and the weeds had grown up
just as high as the door
There were birds in the chimney
and an old chest of drawers
Looks like no one will ever
come back to the
House where nobody lives

Once it held laughter
Once it held dreams
Did they throw it away
Did they know what it means
Did someone's heart break
or did someone do somebody wrong?
So if you find someone
someone to have, someone to hold
Don't trade it for silver
Don't trade it for gold
I have all of life's treasures
and they are fine and they are good
They remind me that houses
Are just made of wood
What makes a house grand
Ain't the roof or the doors
If there's love in a house
It's a palace for sure
Without love
It ain't nothin but a house
A house where nobody lives
Without love it ain't nothin
But a house, A house where
Nobody lives.

[chalkpie]

Falling James in the Tahoe mud
Stick around to tell us all the tale
He fell in love with a Gun Street girl and
Now he's dancing in the Birmingham jail
Dancing in the Birmingham jail

Took a 100 dollars off a Slaughterhouse Joe
Bought a bran' new Michigan 20 gauge
Got all liquored up on that roadhouse corn,
Blew a hole in the hood of a yellow corvette
Blew a hole in the hood of a yellow corvette
Bought a second hand Nova from a Cuban Chinese
Dyed his hair in the bathroom of a Texaco
With a pawnshop radio, quarter past 4
Well he left Waukegan at the slammin' of the door
He left Waukegan at the slammin' of the door

I said, John, John he's long gone
Gone to Indiana
Ain't never coming home
I said John, John he's long gone
Gone to Indiana
Ain't never coming home

Sitting in a sycamore in St. John's Wood
Soakin' day old bread in kerosene
He was blue as a robin's egg brown as a hog
Stayin' out of circulation till the dogs get tired
Stayin' out of circulation till the dogs get tired

Shadow fixed the toilet with an old trombone
He never got up in the morning on a Saturday
Sittin' by the Erie with a bull whipped dog
Tellin' everyone he saw
They went thatta way
Tellin' everyone he saw
They went thatta way

Now the rain's like gravel on an old tin roof
And the Burlington Northern's pullin' out of the world
With a head full of bourbon and a dream in the straw
And a Gun Street Girl was the cause of it all
A Gun Street girl was the cause of it all

Riding in the shadow by the St. Joe Ridge
He heard the click clack tappin' of a blind man's cane
Pullin' into Baker on a New Year's Eve
With one eye on the pistol and the other on the door
With one eye on the pistol and the other on the door

Miss Charlotte took her satchel down to King Fish Row
And she smuggled in a bran' new pair of alligator shoes
With her fireman's raincoat and her long yellow hair, well
They tied her to a tree with a skinny millionaire
They tied her to a tree with a skinny millionaire

I said, John, John he's long gone
Gone to Indiana
Ain't never coming home
I said John, John he's long gone
Gone to Indiana
Ain't never coming home
Bangin' on a table with an old tin cup
Sing I'll never kiss a Gun Street Girl again
I'll never kiss a Gun Street Girl again

I said, John, John he's long gone
Gone to Indiana
Ain't never coming home
I said John, John he's long gone
Gone to Indiana
Ain't never coming home

[chalkpie]

he whirligig beetles are wary and fast
with an organ to detect the ripples
the arachnid moths lay their eggs inside
other insects along the borders of fields or roads
in clusters of white cocoons
the ribbed pine borer is a longhorn beetle
their antenna's are half the length of their body
and they feed on dead red pine
robber flies with their immobile heads
inject a paralyzing fluid into their prey
that they snatch from life in mid-air
the snow flea's mode of locomotion
strange and odd
with a spiny tail mechanism with hooks
and a protracted tube from the abdomen
to enable moisture absorption

the female praying mantis devours the male
while they are mating
the male sometimes continues copulating
even after the female has bitten off his head
and part of his upper torso
every night wasps bite into the stem of a plant
lock their mandibles into position
stretch out at right angles to the stem and
with legs dangling they fall asleep

if one places a minute amount of liquor
on a scorpion
it will instantly go mad and
sting itself to death
the bombardier beetle
when disturbed
defends itself by emitting a series of explosions
sometimes setting off four or five reports in succession
the noises sound like miniature popgun blasts
and are accompanied by a cloud of
reddish coloured vile smelling fluid
it is commonly known that ants keep slaves
certain species
the so-called sanguinary ants
in particular
will raid the nests of other ant tribes
and kill the queen and then kidnap many of the workers
the workers are brought back to the captor's hive
where they are coerced into performing menial tasks

and as we discussed last semester
the army ants will leave nothing but your bones
perhaps you've encountered some of these insects
in your communities
displaying both their predatory and defense characteristics
while embedded within the walls of flesh
and passing for what is most commonly recognized
as human

[bob_32_116]

Tom is, obviously, very patient.

[jazz2896]

I Love Waits - honestly probably more so than 80% of the stuff discussed on this site. I prefer his "rebirth" at Swordfish and on, but I do appreciate and like many of his older albums like Closing Time and Small Change. If you think he is a merely a Beefheart rip-off over a blues track, then you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but as as a hardcore fan I will politely and utterly disagree with that description. He is more diverse than you can imagine and he doesn't have just one voice, but multiple voices like an actor (which he is of course). I truly love many of his albums, but gun to me head, my top five (in no order) would be:

Swordfishtrombones
Mule Variations
Franks Wild Years
The Black Rider
Blood Money

Well, I certainly can't argue with someone with a Cardiacs logo. Maybe I'm not looking at his music the right way then.. I went in looking for some good old avant strangeness, and I'm starting to get the feeling that that probably wasn't the correct way to approach his work.

[spacefreak]

"Swordfishtrombones" is i.m.o. a pivotal album in his career; the place where the Beefheartian influences crept in more obviously.

I was a Tom Waits fan in the 80s and through most of the 90s. For some reason, it is not easy for me to revert to several of his albums, except from some important (for the atmosphere he is trying to communicate) songs, scattered here and there. If I were to keep the albums I'm still revisiting, these would be:

Rain Dogs (his best i.m.o.)
Small Change
Swordfishtrombones
The Heart of Saturday Night
and probably:
Nighthawks at the Diner

[spacefreak]

IMO, Tom Waits has one very good album - his first (Closing Time)

This is the only album where he is not Tom Waits.

[Trane]

I've recently started listening to Tom Waits after years of reading nothing but positive, glowing reviews about nearly all the material he has ever put out. I finally picked up on the fact that he was heavily inspired by Captain Beefheart, and that made me decide to finally take the plunge, and you know what? I can't say I'm a huge fan of his work.
To me, a lot of it sounds very insincere, and while there are a few songs here and there which I do quite enjoy, the majority of his work, to me, ends up sounding like a forced Captain Beefheart impression over basic blues backing tracks. Does anybody else share this opinion?

Can't say that Waits is much up my alley, though I did try a few times. I'd agree that his Beefheart sonics sound mostly like a poseur posture, and I don't hear what most Waits unconditional fans hear

Listening to Waits, I never got the impression he was under the influence of Captain Beefheart. The comparisons are superficial at best. Blues influences and gruff vocals. Aside from his bland mid 70s albums, I find Beefheart's music to be much more accomplished and complex. And his lyrics are million miles away from Waits's wordly, low life character portraits.

Well, I can understand the why of the Beefheart comparisons, and indeed the gruff vocals are part of it.

His first albums weren't 'Beefhearty' at all (I don't think he had discovered that music yet), but an attempt at stageing a ficticious 'bohemian hobo personae' influenced by the aesthetics of the beat movement and the so-called lost generation of the 20s and 30s. Heart of Saturday Night, Small Change and especially Blue Valentine are his finest efforts at this (IMO), but don't expect anything remotely 'avant-garde'.

I still think Swordfishtrombones is a great album, though.

Thanks for these precisions.

I guess I'll try to revisit his music in the next weeks or so.

[Roth-Handle Studios]

Im a big fan of Tom Waits but I cant help feeling it would better if it sounded more like Gabriel-era Genesis. You know with fairy guitars and waterfalls and shit. Now he just sounds like Tom Waits.

// Mattias