I actually enjoy the metal sounding guitars that have creeped into Prog. It's a nice differentiating point between "classic" era stuff and "modern" stuff.
If the songs are good, I'll like it.
I actually enjoy the metal sounding guitars that have creeped into Prog. It's a nice differentiating point between "classic" era stuff and "modern" stuff.
If the songs are good, I'll like it.
The Prog Corner
Exactly.Originally Posted by bob_32_116
It's not just metal sounding guitars. Although the OP didn't mention it I have noticed a lot of post rock influenced prog to the point where it's hard to distinguish between much modern prog and post rock. It's a very droney sound that was once separate for a long time. I blame progarchives.
Since you mentioned it there is a lot of grey area there between classic and modern(assuming you aren't considering anything older than ten years old "classic"). You really didn't have metal sounding guitars in prog in the 90's aside from prog metal. It's a fairly recent phenomena imo.
It seems to me that there is such a vast range of styles and genres out there, that you could find anything and everything that you are looking for. If metal sounding guitars in prog aren't your cup of tea, but you still like something close to the symphonic style, off the top of my head there is: Druckfarben, Ut Gret, IZZ, Echolyn, Big Big Train, Anekdoten, Angalagard, Kinetic Element, Advent, 3rd Degree, etc. etc.
For what it's worth, I'm 53, and am actually getting more into prog-metal than ever, simply because there is a lot of exciting stuff happening in that genre, and heavy guitars and even some growling vocals are not an obstacle for me.
neil
Confession time: when I’m trolling the custom “best of the year” searches on RYM in search of stuff to check out, I usually immediately filter out anything marked “prog metal.” To be honest, I do find some of it actually good (I’ve even come around on DT, within reason), but I still find the two genres to be at odds with one another. And death metal growling is a deal-breaker; can’t listen to Opeth for that very reason (and the “prog” isn’t good enough for me to care).
But yeah, like some people have been saying, there’s good new sympho-prog with zero metal influence if you dig deep enough. Sometimes you don’t even have to dig that deep: Änglagård, Echolyn, Minimum Vital, Asturias, KBB, Wobbler, etc. are all still around and producing albums. There’s some great newer bands out there, too, that are well worth your time. Check them out!
Though I must say that I have a gripe with a lot of modern prog bands with regards to keyboard sounds. It seems a lot of them have zero creativity or imagination in the way they use vintage sounds, and think “can use Mellotron sounds” means “must constantly use Mellotron sounds.” Back in the day, the Mellotron was generally* used as a spice, as occasional spot-orchestration for flavor to complement the organ and piano sounds. Too many of these latter-day sympho bands use blanket-coverage of sampled Mellotron strings as their main sound, which just becomes really tiresome and dull to listen to. More than one prog album has been ruined by this tendency. Heard this album by TCP that was absolutely spoiled by the monochromatic keyboard sounds, I swear the fake Mellotron strings were the only sound they bothered to use.
*the exception seems to have been bands like Jonesy. On their first album, I think Jamie Kaleth’s only keyboards were an M400 and a Hohner electric piano!
Last edited by Progbear; 02-02-2016 at 03:16 AM.
Confirmed Bachelors: the dramedy hit of 1883...
I was into metal as a teenager, actually playing in a Black Sabbath "tribute" act (they didn't call them tribute bands in 1971). As I became more and more of a prog fan, metal elements became more and more of a turn-off for me. By the mid-70's, the only metal in my record collection was a best of Sabbath album. I now find the typical metal guitar sound, as well as shredding, to be unlistenable, although I do like Mr. Bungle's album "California". There are so many different styles going on at once that the metal bits add rather than detract from the overall listening experience.
The problem with tweezy , crunchy metal guitars is when they're combined with multiple stacks of digital keys.
This causes migraine headaches for me.
no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone
I had one college music professor who brought up the notion of "ear fatigue" on more than one occasion. Sometimes it happens when you listen to music that's always loud, without any dynamic range. Sometimes you get it when listening to music that's been heavily compressed, which is of course very common nowadays. So many artists "oversaturate" the sound spectrum, which sounds like what nosebone is describing above. Just watch the lights on a graphic equalizer with that kind of music, almost every frequency displayed is pegging the meters. It'll hurt your ears and give you a throbbing headache after awhile.
My personal opinion as well.
I'm not very fond of metal. The growled vocals irritate me, but I can live with that, and I quite like a bit of (tasteful) shredding.
What really gets to me is the relentless kachunka-kachunka of rhythm guitar and bass used as, essentially, tuned percussion. It feels like someone's firing a machine gun at close range. If I want that I'll go to Nevada.
Cobra handling and cocaine use are a bad mix.
Well, I'm 60, and I like just about all of it, if the SONGS move me. The material has to be right to make me want to hear more. Chugging guitars? Fine. No chugging guitars? Fine. If the music moves me, it can be a delicate finger-picked passage, a Gambale sweep-fest, Earth Wind & Fire, the Carpenters or Dream Theater.
Gnish-gnosh borble wiff, shlauuffin oople tirk.
Maurice White just passed on.
BUMMER!
but I'll look forward to meeting him in the resurrection
my deepest sympathies to his loved ones who are still alive
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
Yeah, I heard that yesterday on the radio, as I was driving home from work, and thought about the fact I just mentioned EW&F. My mother forced me to take my baby sister to see them way back when I was a teen rock snob, so I grudgingly took her. They were a kick-ass live act, and I really enjoyed them. They were tight as a marching snare head!
RIP, Maurice. You certainly put together a party band for the ages.
Gnish-gnosh borble wiff, shlauuffin oople tirk.
When I was in my 20's, 1990's basically, I ONLY listened to 70's prog. Frank Zappa was the only artist whose post 1980 stuff I listened to. Of course, I heard more modern stuff on the radio and even liked some of it, but when it was my choice, it was always exclusively 70's prog. Strangely, as I've gotten older (I'm 46) I find I enjoy more modern elements, including metal, in my music. I play guitar, and always did like heavy distortion......but more like 70's and 80's Rush, as opposed to say Metallica or Slayer. So there is some precedent to me liking metal sounds.
That said, I'm not always happy when bands who didn't have that as part of their sound start using it. Beardfish is a good example. In general though, I'm find with it as long as I like the material. I don't really listen to or seek out prog metal, but I do occasionally enjoy it (some Dream Theater, early Pain Of Salvation, Liquid Tension Experiment, etc.).
So I guess I'd say I really don't mind metal creeping into prog. Though the bands I read about most that started doing this (Arena, Pendragon, etc.) are bands I didn't care for in the first place. One thing though that I never enjoy is cookie monster vocals. If used for effect, and not across a whole album, I can tolerate them, but otherwise just not my thing. Probably why I don't care for most Opeth but absolutely love the last two albums (no growling, no metal distortion, but still metal based music in a lot of ways).
In case you didn't know (you probably did), the Damnation album is also cookie monster free (and very good).
I'm also 52 and I more or less stopped listening to metal music when it became really formulaic (I'd place that around 81 or so, with the NWOBHMB thing). Oddly nough that space was quickly filled by JR/F when I discovered Caravanserai. TBH, 99% of post-81 metal bores the hell out me.
thing is that, outside a few Scandinavian retro-prog bands of the early 90's, very few of the modern "neo" or "symph" prog has actually rattled my nuts with pleasure
As for jazz, I really have a hard time with pre-59 stuff, and Bop genres in general
Yeah, but that the Teutonic side in you
Indeed... But TBH, in most styles, everything's been done over & over again
TBH, even in more adventurous styles like RIO/Avant, I can't help but feeling mostly tired of new releases, which often sound like "yet just another XYZ album"
This actually a weird contradiction, since 2015 has IMHO happened to be the best year in "prog" (and jazz) since the millenium - and maybe even longer.
Part of this renewed enthusiasm (everything remaining relative) is that I think sme of those SZ label bands (Scherzoo, Vak, Unit Wail, etc... and Setna before them) have moved away from the oppressive zeuhl sonics thing
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
I will also say that if I'm sampling an album and it starts with the drummer counting down with his sticks followed by the singer taking in a HUGE breath, I know what's coming and stop listening.
This is an interesting observation in that as a metal fan first and foremost, I rarely hear the so called "obvious metal" that prog fans point out in modern prog bands.
For example, Arena, OSI, Threshold, I hear no metal in those bands at all, what I hear, when it is there, is hard rock prog.
Dream Theater on the other hand is a metal band.
[It feels like someone's firing a machine gun at close range. ]
It's funny. I've made the "machine gun" comparison myself. The constant "jid jid jid jid" sound made by guitars does remind me of a machine gun and sometimes the thick guitars sound like buzzsaws. I can deal with it and I actually like metal and prog metal but it's not my favorite thing. Where I agree with the OP is that metal and not even prog metal has indeed infiltrated progressive rock and I definitely am glad to see it's something finally being addressed. I have even noticed that certain fans of heavy metal are now considering some of these prog bands metal when in fact they really aren't because they are either touring with metal bands or being exposed to a metal audience. Many of these fans don't even really know what progressive rock is or are familiar with that label I'm guessing. Beardfish is an example of that but then there's also bands like Karnivool(who I'm admittedly not familiar with) and probably tons of others.
A machine gun at close range doesn't go jid, jid, jid, it goes ching, ching, ching as the belt links hit the deck or the vehicle armour.
# Just sayin'
this doesn't happen to me anymore
crunchy metallic guitars are a repellent for me
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
It's the absurd death growls that turn me off. They've been doing that Halloweeny grunting and growling for what, 30 years? And still call it "progressive", as if progressive and redundant are synonymous? Thankfully, Opeth at least stopped that nonsense on the last few albums, so I could actually listen to them without laughing.
"And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision."
Occasional musical musings on https://darkelffile.blogspot.com/
I can take growling in small doses. There is a reason why they do it but I'm not sure what it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9jtvkGsSBYA machine gun at close range doesn't go jid, jid, jid, it goes ching, ching, ching as the belt links hit the deck or the vehicle armour.
# Just sayin'
Close enough to me. It's mainly the rhythm I was referring to.
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