Is Prog really just Psychedelic Rock under a different label?

[moecurlythanu]

A lot of prog is too complicated to concieve ... if you are on drugs.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Seeing how absolutely no one whatsoever seems to actually know what the hell "prog" is to begin with, the very term of this question appears somewhat oblivious. But shitloads of artists made music which was nevertheless both psychedelic and progressive - stylistically - and did so with *conscious intent*.

But no, I don't find much psychedelic about that first UK album, or with Univers Zero. Talk Talk were extremely psychedelic on their last two records, but not as genre.

And William Shatner was all of the above. And more.

[Vic2012]

To be honest I only listen to prog whilst stoned. Only on weekends.

[Svetonio]

Ok, don't panic! But a friend of mine has always contended that ItCotCK, DSotM, Fagile and CTTE were all psychedelic rock albums that the groups who created them, KC, PF, and Yes, had denied any allegiance to Psych Rock due to the post 60's negative connotations attributed to Psych Rock and it's pop commercialization, married to the fact that it was a hippie artifact which quickly become Persona Non Grata in the early seventies.

So..Whot's the deal? Is there a ring of truth in any of this. And please remember that many people have never listed to a Prog album in the early seventies without at least some weed being consumed, amongst other goodies

Although many people was called it all (wrongly) "psych", *progressive music* was something apparently new and original in the second half of sixties and it was not developed from 60s psychedelia movement.

[bob_32_116]

No.

[Sonia_Mota]

But "The White Album" was recorded when the Beatles experimented with LSD.

I miss Jean, do you still share same IP address? Pity you both can't be online at the same time.

[BaldJean]

Don't worry, we are both here. And yes, still same IP-address since we live together.

[Sonia_Mota]

Don't worry, we are both here. And yes, still same IP-address since we live together.

Aha! Jean! You both are each other better half sharing same IP this hasn't changed ofcourse but it's silly you both can't come online concurrently.

[Jubal]

I agree.
To my ears, DSOTM sounds very planned, exact, contained and progressive, in other words far from the spacey, loose, free flowing sound of psychedelic music.

Pink Floyd is a band who started out Psychedelic because they weren't good enough to play in a more structured manner. Listen to Interstellar Overdrive and A Saucerful of Secrets to hear their Psychedelic side. Astronomy Domine, while having a lot of the types of effects generally associated with Psychedelic music, is a step closer to being Progressive, as was Atom Heart Mother and Echoes.
When jam sections are played, the less structured solos tend to sound Psychedelic while the more structured solos tend to allow different styles to better fit the groove.
Some might say "Time" is Psychedelic because of the freakout clock alarms at the beginning. Most Psychedelic songs, however, are not that well structured and do not have concise solos. Dave's Blues soloing made things line up better in the Progressive side of things.

[Rick Robson]

I agree.
To my ears, DSOTM sounds very planned, exact, contained and progressive, in other words far from the spacey, loose, free flowing sound of psychedelic music.

I've heard bands that sound to me a lot psychedelic albeit very planned, exact and contained, at the same extent. Astra and Crippled Black Phoenix are two examples that I can recall right now.

[Kavus Torabi]

Steve Reich's Octet is scored and obviously completely planned yet is, as far as I can tell, one of the most psychedelic pieces of music ever recorded. What can I tell you?

[angelo]

Seeing how absolutely no one whatsoever seems to actually know what the hell "prog" is to begin with, the very term of this question appears somewhat oblivious. But shitloads of artists made music which was nevertheless both psychedelic and progressive - stylistically - and did so with *conscious intent*.

But no, I don't find much psychedelic about that first UK album, or with Univers Zero. Talk Talk were extremely psychedelic on their last two records, but not as genre.

And William Shatner was all of the above. And more.

If prog came out of progressive, on the day someone decided that prog needed a fixed format, it lost the freedom that makes psychedelic possible. Pigeonholing doesn't have a positive side...

[Jay.Dee]

Dark Side Of The Moon does not, to these ears at least, sound in the least bit psychedelic.

It had sounded psychedelic until they decided to take it (in studio) to the next level. Of music intricacy or venues capacity - the opinions vary.

[PeterG]

Pink Floyd is a band who started out Psychedelic because they weren't good enough to play in a more structured manner. Listen to Interstellar Overdrive and A Saucerful of Secrets to hear their Psychedelic side. Astronomy Domine, while having a lot of the types of effects generally associated with Psychedelic music, is a step closer to being Progressive, as was Atom Heart Mother and Echoes.

I Know all that. I've said all that already. I've been listening to Pink Floyd since 1973.

[Scrotum Scissor]

To my ears, DSOTM sounds very planned, exact, contained and progressive, in other words far from the spacey, loose, free flowing sound of psychedelic music.

I can name you several dozen examples of 'psychedelic music' which are anything but "spacey, loose, free flowing" - and some of it made by artists whose material for the most part is also 'progressive' WAY beyond the majority of acts presented in here on a daily basis. As such, much of your logical precondition is wrong.

[Rick Robson]

Steve Reich's Octet is scored and obviously completely planned yet is, as far as I can tell, one of the most psychedelic pieces of music ever recorded. What can I tell you?

If you dig a little more into the minimalistic and the contemporary music world I guess you can find plenty more of it as well.

[Kavus Torabi]

^ Of course. I suppose I was using an obvious example to make a point. The point being, and loath as I am to open a whole other can of worms, my personal understanding of psychedelic music is very much based on the effect it has on me rather than being tied to a particular style or idiom.

[Scrotum Scissor]

my personal understanding of psychedelic music is very much based on the effect it has on me rather than being tied to a particular style or idiom.

I can side so fully with this; for instance, the most musically psychedelic experience I ever had was probably hearing Magma's "Köhntarkösz" while, uh, mentally sedated.

There are some very obvious other examples, of course; I never really "got" those early releases by Man (the legendary Welsh rockers) before I tried them while accompanied by chemical state-of-the-art, and that piece "Prelude - The Storm" (opening their second album, 2 Ozs of Plastic With a Hole in the Middle from 1969) came out as one of the most placid yet mildly uncanny 'rock tunes' I'd heard up 'till then. And this is certainly not sloppy or "free flowing" stuff, rather multiply detailed and elaborate textures of upmost attention.

An incredibly cool slant of footage with them here:

[Kavus Torabi]

Agreed. Köhntarkösz is absurdly psychedelic.

[Jay.Dee]

Progressive and psychedelic have been often two sides of the same coin.

Victory over the Sun is a Russian Futurist opera premiered in 1913 at the Luna Park in Saint Petersburg.

The libretto written in zaum language was contributed by Aleksei Kruchonykh, the music was written by Mikhail Matyushin, the prologue was added by Velimir Khlebnikov, and the stage designer was Kasimir Malevich. The performance was organized by the artistic group Soyuz Molodyozhi. The opera has become famous as the event where Malevich made his first "Black Square" painting (in 1915).

The opera was intended to underline parallels between literary text, musical score, and the art of painting, and featured a cast of such extravagant characters as Nero and Caligula in the Same Person, Traveller through All the Ages, Telephone Talker, The New Ones, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_over_the_Sun

[PeterG]

I can name you several dozen examples of 'psychedelic music' which are anything but "spacey, loose, free flowing"

I don't doubt it, but in that case they will match your definition of psychedelic not mine.

[Scrotum Scissor]

I don't doubt it, but in that case they will match your definition of psychedelic not mine.

Which is absolutely wonderful, but then again most authoritative writings on psychedelic rock music would indeed also designate those names in question as *just that* - psychedelic. And there are some very well known names involved on the list, so that's supremely OK.

[zombywoof]

The point being, and loath as I am to open a whole other can of worms, my personal understanding of psychedelic music is very much based on the effect it has on me rather than being tied to a particular style or idiom.

Exactly, I define psychedelic as 'music that makes my head feel funny'.

[Vic2012]

In a gadda davida sounds like Progadelic to me.

[bob_32_116]

In a gadda davida sounds like Progadelic to me.

I heard this song recently, for the first time in a long while. I think I liked it at one time, but I was amazed at how lame and plodding it sounds now, neither progressive nor even particularly psychedelic. Is it the organ arpeggios that arfe supposed to make it "psychedelic"?