Genesis albums after Wind & W- How do they rate?

[Sean]

The Yes thread on albums after 90125 was pretty enlightening. How about a similar look/ranking of the Genesis catalog after Hackett split?

[progeezer]

No sarcasm or snark intended (really!), but aren't there a large number of PE members (besides me) that think their great music ended with W & W?

[Sean]

I am sure many would agree. That is what makes this sort of list so interesting. The stuff that maybe isn't as highly regarded and, why.....

[bob_32_116]

I think ATTWT, while not as good as the immediately preceding albums, is still good enough for me to call it "great". That is the last one I would honour with that term.

IMO they hit a nadir with ABACAB, but the albums that followed each had their moments. I probably rate s/t (aka "Shapes") the best of the bunch.

[Buddhabreath]

I bought ATTWT the day it was available and was pretty disappointed even after having seen the writing I'm the wall with W&W. I did buy Duke which I referred to as Puke at the time and promptly threw it in the garbage and have only heard subsequent stuff on the radio etc. I'd be interested in arguments for reassessing - I guess there are a few decent songs and nice production moments like the title cut on Slabofflab, I mean Abacab comes to mind..

[Progatron]

Duke - Definitely the strongest post-W&W album. Great songs, a great sound throughout, and Phil really coming into his own vocally. All three of the guys sound fantastic on this album, and it contains one of the strongest moments in their entire career with the "Guide Vocal" reprise at the end of "Duke's Travels". The one-two punch of "Behind The Lines" and "Duchess" to kick off the album is very strong too. And the lesser-known tracks from the album are generally winners in my book as well, such as "Heathaze" and "Cul-De-Sac".

...And Then There Were Three - I love this album. I've said many times it has a moodiness to it that really works for me, and although it was probably the least band-oriented album from a songwriting point of view, the songs themselves are great. "Down And Out", "Deep In The Motherlode", "The Lady Lies", "Burning Rope" and the b-side "The Day The Light Went Out"... these are all frequent listens for me. They never did an album before or since that sounds like this one. Yes, I miss Steve, but I have a real soft spot for this album.

Genesis - "Home By The Sea", "Mama", "Silver Rainbow", "Just A Job To Do"... I love these tracks. What I don't love, however, is "Illegal Alien", without a doubt one of their worst tracks ever. But overall this album is quite strong IMO.

Invisible Touch - the title track and "In Too Deep" are lame-O, but I quite like the rest of it. Despite the dated 80s sound, it's a great sounding record to my ears.

Abacab - a dip in quality, but some great tracks nonetheless, particularly "Dodo" and "Me And Sarah Jane". I also love "You Might Recall" and "Submarine", both of which should have been on the album IMO. I'll also admit a soft spot for "Keep It Dark".

We Can't Dance - the largest number of skipper tracks to date, but some equally great ones too. I really wish they would have included "On The Shoreline" and kicked off the album with it. The two long tracks are great, and I like the mood of "Dreaming While You Sleep". This is one that I definitely have to edit to make my own version of the album in order to properly enjoy it.

Calling All Stations - "Uncertain Weather", "Alien Afternoon" and "There Must Be Some Other Way" are solid tracks, and there are some okay ones too. And like the previous album: some dreck. And those fade-outs! Oh god those are bad. I have a feeling that if they had done another one after this, it would have been a better album, but the end was in sight now. Removing such a key member of the team at this point was a little too much to bear I think. It's a good album by a lot of bands' standards, but not by this band's standards.

[Poisoned Youth]

The Yes thread on albums after 90125 was pretty enlightening. How about a similar look/ranking of the Genesis catalog after Hackett split?

Let's assume you only mean studio material.

I am not a Collins hater and I grew up with Abacab and Shapes before I had ever heard any Gabriel material. "Oh, you mean the guy who wrote Sledgehammer was in Genesis?"

So for me it goes like this...


1. Genesis - I grew up with this, so it always has a soft spot. I'd give it a B+ still for some catchy songs and Home by the Sea I/II.

2. Duke - Underrated, if there is such a thing in the Genesis world. I would still give this one a B+ as well.

3. We Can't Dance - I played the crap out of this for the first year it came out to be honest, so it's worn thin but also has some lengthy tracks that are solid. B.

4. Abacab - Another full of catchy works. B.

5. Invisible Touch - Really plays like more of a PC solo album, still remember the puppets video for Land of Confusion I always laughed at. B-

6. And Then There Were Three - I have tried over the years and can't make anything stick. Much prefer Duke/Abacab and often skip over this. C-

7. Calling All Stations - Meh. D.

[ThomasKDye]

1) Duke - Oddly enough, I'm not as much a fan of "Behind the Lines/Duchess." Not sure why. It just seems a bit forced to me. However, "Duke's Travels/Duke's End" are wonderful, and there's a plethora of great songs in there: "Cul De Sac," "Heathaze," and yes, even "Misunderstanding" is a lot of fun. "Man of Our Times" is the only clunker for me (the verse riff is an annoying Mike-ism and the lyrics practically don't even exist), but everything afterwards is gold.

2) And Then There Were Three - The songs are fine, though the production is a bit mushy and Phil sounds like he's singing in a cave. "The Lady Lies" has great basswork at the end of it.

3) Abacab - First side, brilliant. To me, it's Genesis trying to be New Wave, and doing it right, with their own unique spin. "Dodo/Lurker" is also fine. After that… yow. Four terrible songs in a row, the best of which, "Like It Or Not," is emptier than the emptiest Mike and the Mechanics song. This album gets to #3 on the strength of the first side and "Dodo/Lurker."

4) Genesis - "Home/Second Home" is a standout, and the second side has some solid pop songs. Not a great prog album but very listenable. I've disavowed "Illegal Alien," though. The lyrics are just embarrassing.

5) Invisible Touch - If you can get past the eighties production, and the terrible tinny sound of Mike's guitar, there's some fun stuff on here. Only the title song and "In Too Deep" are horrible.

6) Calling All Stations - Song for song, better than "We Can't Dance." Some duds but a lot of powerful numbers as well.

7) We Can't Dance - Utter bore apart from "Fading Lights," which may be my favorite Genesis song ever, and "Living Forever." "Dreaming While You Sleep" is also not bad if I'm in the right mood. But "Tell Me Why" is the most nonexistent song they've ever done. "Driving the Last Spike" is decent, I suppose, but it doesn't really do anything for me. Not sure why.

[Progatron]

Invisible Touch - Really plays like more of a PC solo album

I don't know, I can't imagine "Domino", "The Brazilian" or "Tonight Tonight Tonight" on a PC solo album personally.

1) "Tell Me Why" is the most nonexistent song they've ever done.

There was all this hype before the album was released about how Mike had pulled out the ol' Rickenbacker 12-string again, and then it turned out THIS was the song he used it on. :/

[arturs]

I always liked ABACAB because it had a lot of catchy songs on it. Over time, I have grown to enjoy Duke, ATTW3 and even, even Invisible Touch. There. I said it. It is a good album, and deservedly mega platinum.

Still can't get into WCD and I've never tried with CAS.

[Jacob Holm-Lupo]

I've heard that Phil Collins ruined Genesis, so I don't listen to any of their post-Trespass stuff.

[ThomasKDye]

I've heard that Phil Collins ruined Genesis, so I don't listen to any of their post-Trespass stuff.

And, man, what an empty piece of pop treacle Brand X was!

[Rufus]

DUKE-8/10
ATTWT-6/10
ABACAB-6/10
INVISIBLE TOUCH-6/10
SHAPES-5/10
CAS-4/10
WCD-3/10

There you have it, most are just about average!

[mx20]

I only miss Hackett on Duke, tbh. Still love that album, though. Abacab is the last great studio album. Invisible Touch is respectable, at least, because it was good at being a commercial pop smash (plus a few more challenging moments). CAS was a horrible mistake, although I was looking forward to the US tour which never happened. The whole CAS affair was a debacle, and a poor way to go out. I did enjoy the 2007 tour, although their age was showing in the energy level and key-changes, but not by much.

[progeezer]

I've heard that Phil Collins ruined Genesis, so I don't listen to any of their post-Trespass stuff.

Amazing how you can make someone aspirate a beverage from so far away!

[PeterG]

My response to this thread can best be answered by my response to the other thread.
My musical taste tells me that their best music started with Trick. I can't stand Gabriel's voice nor his cheezy lyrics nor his vocal antics and accents.
The first album I heard when it was new was W & W, then in 1981 I heard Trick for the first time. The first one I bought on release, was also the first CD I bought, Invisible Touch.
So the Gabriel period albums have no emotional or cultural connection for me. I own them all and have listened to them all many times, during the 90s and 00s, but I have steadily grown to dislike them more and more for every year that passes.
That said Nursery Cryme is still in my top list, because 3 of Genesis' greatest tracks are on it.

TOP - i.e. those I like and actually listen to

1. Trick (best)
2. W & W
3. Nursery Cryme
4. ATTWT
5. Duke
6. Abacab
7. Genesis
8. Invisible Touch
9. We Can't Dance

BOTTOM - i.e. those I don't like and never listen to

1. Lamb (worst)
2. CAS
3. From G to R
4. Foxtrot
5. SEBTP
6. Trespass

[Patelena396]

CAS was a horrible mistake, although I was looking forward to the US tour which never happened. The whole CAS affair was a debacle, and a poor way to go out. I did enjoy the 2007 tour, although their age was showing in the energy level and key-changes, but not by much.

In retrospect, CAS could have been better but it does have some very good moments and being a huge fan of the Banks style, I found much to enjoy on the album. Though I like Ray Wilson, I wonder now if David London (Big Big Train) would have been a better choice to sing on the album. He was a finalist to replace Phil Collins. Perhaps, he wasn't choosen due to the similarity of his voice to Collins. That said, I think his voice would have fit well with some of the CAS material.

It is hard for me judge the albums by number but here goes......

1. Duke
2. Abacab
3. ATTWT
4. We can't Dance
5. CAS
6. Invisible Touch
7. Shapes

The standing of the last two on the list are most likely a result of hearing the songs too much back in the day via radio, MTV, etc.

[Adm.Kirk]

And Then There Were Three...-Easily my favorite of this group. Not to poppy yet.

We Can't Dance-The best of the pop albums plus Fading Lights is, for me, one of the all time great Genesis not matter what the era. Driving the Last Spike is also excellent and the pop tunes are really strong.

Duke-Some pop hits and some good longer material

Abacab-This and Duke are somewhat interchangeable. This and Three Sides Live were the albums I discovered Genesis with so I'm rather partial to Abacab.

Calling All Stations-The fadeouts are really odd here. I miss Phil more as a drummer and writer than a singer. Ray Wilson seems to strike a balance between Peter and Phil. Still, some good work, particularly from Banks. Better than advertised.

Genesis-Mostly pop. Not terrible but not as strong as the other albums.

Invisible Touch-My least favorite Genesis album. It's not awful. It's a pop album with a prog flourish or two. I liked the songs better live than on this album. It got burned out for me with it on the radio every five minutes. Last time I played it I enjoyed more than I remember.

I like all Genesis, just some more than others.

Bill

[miamiscot]

I'll go with this:

1) And Then There Were Three 7.5/10
2) Duke 7/10
3) Abacab 6.5/10
4) Shapes 6/10
5) We Can't Dance 6/10
6) Invisible Touch 5/10
7) Calling All Stations 4/10

[Progatron]

Invisible Touch ..... It got burned out for me with it on the radio every five minutes.

That year it was impossible to escape them. And even if you tried, you still had Gabriel ("So") to contend with, Mike & The Mechanics, and even Steve Hackett with GTR!

Then there was Tony Banks and his Soundtracks album which of course didn't chart and didn't sell.

[zravkapt]

1. Duke - highlights: Duchess, Turn It On Again, Behind The Lines

2. Abacab - highlights: Dodo/Lurker, Keep It Dark, Abacab

3. Invisible Touch - highlights: Tonight...(album version), Throwing It All Away, The Brazilion

4. ...And Then There Were Three - highlights: Burning Rope, Down And Out, Follow Moo Follow Pee

5. Genesis - highlights: Home By The Sea/Second Home By The Sea, Mama, That's All

6. ...Calling All Stations... - highlights: Uncertain Weather, Calling All Stations

7. We Can't Dance - highlights: Dreaming While You Sleep, Fading Lights

[JKL2000]

Let's assume you only mean studio material.

I am not a Collins hater and I grew up with Abacab and Shapes before I had ever heard any Gabriel material. "Oh, you mean the guy who wrote Sledgehammer was in Genesis?" :

I didn't realize you're still a teenager!

[flowerking]

Every album after Winds & Wuthering has highlights but too many lows as well. I'd almost be tempted to list them in the order they were released but I think Abacab is a bit better than Duke (doesn't have any great songs like Dukes End/Dukes Travels but Abacab has better pop-oriented songs) and I'd elevate Invisible Touch higher than Genesis because of Domino and The Brazilian.

So, with that said, top to bottom:
1. And Then There Were Three
2. Abacab
3. Duke
4. Invisible Touch
5. Genesis
6. We Can't Dance
7. Calling All Stations

[grego]

After W&W? - it's simple descending in chronological order.

[JKL2000]

After W&W? - it's simple descending in chronological order.

Bingo!