SPOCK's BEARD Morse era vs. Post Morse era

[YESHEAD777]

Ok, I realize this subject has probably been done to death but its probably been a while, and for me it comes down to one thing: Neal Morse's songwriting! I've been listening tonight to The light, Beware of Darkness, and Kindness of Strangers. Haven't heard masterpieces like Go the Way you Go, The Water, Walking on the wind, Waste Away, the good don't last too long, Cake walk on Easy Street, and Harm's Way in a long time. Sorry but nothing from the post morse era comes close in the songwriting dept. IMHO, and those aren't even the real classics like the Light, The doorway, and the best cuts from Day from Night, V, and Snow. For Me, Feel Euphoria was such a trainwreck I really doubted if they should or would go on, and it got only slightly better from there. I love Ted Leonard, but I just don't like the way his voice sounds with SB. I liked him with Enchant a lot more. Nick was a great drummer and backing/harmony vocalist, but just wasn't a lead vocalist for this caliber of a band. This is not commenting on the spectacular musicianship of Dave, Alan, and Ryo. So what percent of great PROG is songwriting? Not taking into account Neal's vocals and musicianship, how much has his absence in the songwriting dept. hurt this band. Well, you know my opinion.

[Poisoned Youth]

So what percent of great PROG is songwriting? Not taking into account Neal's vocals and musicianship, how much has his absence in the songwriting dept. hurt this band. Well, you know my opinion.

I agree completely. You are taking the lead singer, songwriter, and personality and removing him from the group. Is it no wonder that what is left feels like a "backing band"? That might sound a bit harsh, but there's very little I am interested in from post-Neal SB - and most of THOSE songs were written in a style to imitate how they sounded when Neal was with the group and/or songs written by Neal for Brief Nocturnes (which was pretty good album). The newest album did nothing for me.

Conversely, while I think some of it has been hit and miss and I'm not fond of some of the lyrical content, Neal's solo records have been fairly solid with albums like Testimony, One, and Momentum. I absolutely listen to these more than any Morseless SB.

I have also found in reading previous threads on similar subjects a correlation between when you became a fan of SB has an affect on if you listen to them now. I first was introduced to SB right when Beware of Darkness was being released in '96. When I first heard this and The Light, I was blown away frankly. I think those who hopped on board much later (V or Snow) tend to be more forgiving of the band's work after Neal left. That's just my observation.

[YESHEAD777]

Good observations. I did hop on with Day for Night and V, and then went back to the early ones, and then after Feel Euphoria followed Neal and never looked back. I did like some of what I heard on X, but like you said it was a lot of Neal influenced stuff.

[Rufus]

I agree with the OP but I have been listening to the post-Morse era quite alot on the 2nd disc of the recent 25 years compilation, some damn fine stuff on there!

[SteveSly]

I hopped on right from the very beginning and enjoy all eras of Spock's Beard. Personally I think there is some really good stuff on the Nick era albums and I enjoy both of the Leonard albums as well. I have seen all 3 versions of the band live and thought they were all great. Each front man brought a different element to the presentation.

[TheH]

Although some of the post Morse stuff is OK (like "X"), nothing of that really blows me away..

I'm a big fan of Leonard's voice, but as the OP said his voice is much better suited for Enchant...

But I also doubt it would have been much better with Morse, Snow allready was an awfull Album and
apart from the first two Transatlantic Albums I really don't need more Morse too..

[ytserush]

Completely different vibe anyway although they've recaptured that vibe somewhat over the last several albums.

[Rufus]

I would also add that Morse era SB were a band who's albums got progressively better, with SNOW being their best album by a country mile!

[TheH]

I would also add that Morse era SB were a band who's albums got progressively better, with SNOW being their best album by a country mile!

Mmmh.. WHY? (I think Snow was kind of a DISASTER)

[Rufus]

Mmmh.. WHY? (I think Snow was kind of a DISASTER)

Solitary Soul alone is a good reason in itself!

[Poisoned Youth]

Mmmh.. WHY? (I think Snow was kind of a DISASTER)

Snow grew on me. There was a time where I discounted it as a letdown post V. I still am not fond of the whole Morsian/TA super epic (Testimony, T2, Whirlwind, Snow), but there's some solid material on the album.

[ThomasKDye]

I like early Spock's Beard well enough, but there's sort of a sameness to every song that becomes somewhat wearying after a while. I actually thought two post-Neal SB albums, "X" and "Brief Nocturnes," hit the right balance between Neal material and non-Neal material. If Neal provides maybe 1/4 or 1/5 of the album, it tends to make the other material shine and stand out. Unfortunately, that became obvious with their latest album, which is definitely not as strong as their previous material, and may be the weakest post-Neal album since "Feel Euphoria," which I sort of liked.

I'm okay with Neal using his talents to express his bond with Jesus (though I won't be sharing his road), but I'm also glad he shares his talents with his Beardmates once in a while. "Waiting For Me" is a fantastic song, one I can listen to over and over. I haven't heard "Falling Into Forever" yet, but I plant to buy the CD soon.

[hFx]

I didn't listen to them with more interest until a friend gave me the 2007 Live DVD which I like much. I've tried tried to "back track" Neil as SB member, solo artist etc. Great musician, OK singer and songwriter but to me he kind of lost it, pursuing other things...

[JKL2000]

Can anyone give a count of how many Neal Morse disks there are? This should include non-solo work where he's a major contributor (so would include Morse-era SN, that Two Gorillas thing, etc, also live disks, and should include ALL disks, so a 3-disk set counts as 3 disks. I'm guessing around 40-50.

[Poisoned Youth]

Can anyone give a count of how many Neal Morse disks there are? This should include non-solo work where he's a major contributor (so would include Morse-era SN, that Two Gorillas thing, etc, also live disks, and should include ALL disks, so a 3-disk set counts as 3 disks. I'm guessing around 40-50.

That's a pretty low number. If you include the "Inner Circle" stuff especially, it's probably around 100.

[TheH]

Discogs lists 96 items (including DVDs) for Morse solo alone...
(several of those are Multi discs)

[Rufus]

Neal's latest solo album The Grand Experiment is my favourite album he's ever been involved in, solo or group!
Just shows that the guy still has plenty left in the tank, most artists well is dry after about 5 albums!

[gryphs also]

I consider SB with Neal Morse and NDV to be two different bands. I think the last two with NDV really hit their stride and contain some great songs, equal to early SB. But they need to be looked at as different bands.

[Jondon4]

I have to agree. SB with Neal was a completely different band than SB with Nick and still different from SB with Ted. I fell in love with SB on the strength of Neal's song writing although his voice didn't always hold up live on stage. Neal's songs had such subtleties, nuances and emotion. I liked SB with Nick, especially Octane and X partly on the strength of the same style of songwriting and musicianship, something Feel Euphoria lacked. But SB with Ted has thrown all that nuanced, subtle ebb and flow out the window for songs that I find to be only emotionless and loud. Alan's guitar playing tends to be ham-fisted rather than precise and sharp (although he's certainly capable of that). My theory is that Neal and Nick (as co-founders of the band) were able to mediate that tendency whereas the band under Ted has just let him go full blast. Just a theory.

[Dodie]

Well, I'm sure that all your tastes are more exquisite than mine, but in one way or another I disagree with almost everything posted so far. I'm obviously just out of kilter!
I think Spock's with Neal at the helm was wonderful at its best, but not always consistent. I think they were also usually that way with NDV as the lead singer -mostly very much to my liking but not quite always. The two albums with Ted Leonard have been a bit less appealing to me, but I still enjoyed them to a reasonable extent. The only album the band has ever done that I think is mostly poor is the self-titled ninth album - but I think the other three NDV-led albums are all really good and chock full of corking tunes, and just as much as the six albums with Neal Morse. Some of Octane is every bit as good as The Light, and some of The Light is poorer than some of what's on Octane... and I think that X is a much stronger album than Day For Night, which merely has three or four excellent tracks (for me).

I don't agree that one has to think of them as different bands. I'm not threatened by the idea of a band evolving and changing over time, with different personnel, etc.

[mozo-pg]

I got off the bus after Neal left. As a loyal prog fan I carefully stepped on and off the bus with great regularity for the new band. I actually seldom play SB any longer.

[JKL2000]

That's a pretty low number. If you include the "Inner Circle" stuff especially, it's probably around 100.

I'd forgotten about his inner circle! Also, Tranatlantic. If you count live CDs and DVDs that's probably over 25 disks alone. I think Neal dwarfs Klaus Schulze!

[JKL2000]

I got off the bus after Neal left. As a loyal prog fan I carefully stepped on and off the bus with great regularity for the new band. I actually seldom play SB any longer.

Same here, really. Overall I listen to more Transatlantic and solo Neal Morse than any SB. I was never that big a SB fan. I think The Light is their best album, though some of the post-NM ones I've never heard.

[3LockBox]

While I like a few songs on each of the post-Morse Era albums, I find that I'm fatigued trying to listen to an entire album. Too much of it comes across like suped-up Billy Joel.

[miamiscot]

I enjoy all the SB records but for me the six with Neal are the best. I am, however, extremely biased as I adore all four Transatlantic albums and the eight Morse solo Prog LP's.

I actually think SB is improving with each post-Morse release. The Oblivion Particle was really, really good!!!