Thread: The New Prog Beer Snob Thread

  1. #801
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    New Belgium beers are just ok.
    I have to agree... and not just because they don't make a Porter or Stout
    There's something about the Colorado water that doesnt make for great beer

    In the west, Oregon and Northern Cali are the areas with excellent water for brewing... and of course, the Great Lakes states are all excellent
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    New Belgium beers are just ok.
    Agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 100423 View Post
    Attachment 10547

    https://foundersbrewing.com/latest-n...-release-doom/

    Some pretty tasty stuff. I may have to grab some more.
    Doom is awesome. I missed out on getting any bottles, but had it on tap a couple of weeks ago and it was very good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    New Belgium beers are just ok.
    My wife’s sister lives in Colorado. When she first moved out there, it was a bit before the micro-brew beer boom, but Fat Tire could be found in a lot of places at the time. I drank a ton of it when we went to visit, and she had a keg of it at her wedding reception. Today I find it to be rather mediocre, but back at the time it hit the spot. I like some of New Belgium’s IPA’s ok. Not spectacular, but not terrible either.

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    Estimated Prophet notallwhowander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    In the west, Oregon and Northern Cali are the areas with excellent water for brewing... and of course, the Great Lakes states are all excellent
    I think this is why when a Rogue hits with me, it hits big.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    I have to agree... and not just because they don't make a Porter or Stout
    There's something about the Colorado water that doesnt make for great beer
    The Asheville location made it clear they're using Asheville water. I'm pretty sure I've had plenty of good beers from Asheville. And Colorado, too for that matter.

    For what it's worth, I was much less impressed with their beer than their business model.

    When I visited Sierra Nevada in Asheville, it did not feel like they had tried to make themselves a part of the very diverse and eclectic Asheville scene. New Belgium did feel like a fit. Big kudos to them for doing a lot of things they didn't have to do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    There's something about the Colorado water that doesnt make for great beer
    I can't agree with that at all. Avery and Breckenridge are both very good. There are many other craft breweries in the state. In the early days of the craft brewing boom, Colorado and California were considered the 2 leading states, and they still have great reputations.
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    well, of course palettes differ, but I have had many beers from many breweries in Colorado and there's something not great about them.
    They are definitely not up to Oregon and N. Cali and a different league than the Great Lakes craft brews
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    well, of course palettes differ, but I have had many beers from many breweries in Colorado and there's something not great about them.
    They are definitely not up to Oregon and N. Cali and a different league than the Great Lakes craft brews
    Yeah, Crooked Stave, Ska, Black Project, TRVE, Baere, Avery, Great Divide, Funkwerks, Comrade...those guys obviously have no idea what they're doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oilersfan View Post
    Yeah, Crooked Stave, Ska, Black Project, TRVE, Baere, Avery, Great Divide, Funkwerks, Comrade...those guys obviously have no idea what they're doing.
    I guess you didn't bother to read or understand what I wrote

    IT'S THE WATER

    you can be the greatest brewmaster in the universe but you wont be able to make great beer with lesser quality water
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

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    OK, we'll agree to see things differently. I'm not buying that there's anything wrong with Colorado's water.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    Doom is awesome. I missed out on getting any bottles, but had it on tap a couple of weeks ago and it was very good.
    I have a 750ml of Doom chilling right now, but have no idea how it is yet.

    For tonight I have a bottle of Victory Jubilee, their 21st anniversary Biére Brut. I had this on tap at one of the breweries a few months ago and now several bottles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    I guess you didn't bother to read or understand what I wrote

    IT'S THE WATER

    you can be the greatest brewmaster in the universe but you wont be able to make great beer with lesser quality water
    Oh, I read and understood it, and it's ludicrous to make blanket statements about entire regions or geographic areas having good or bad water for brewing. What is true about water quality is that it can vary widely within a particular geographic area, and I'm not talking about the thousands of square miles you flippantly refer to. I'm talking about water quality being different within locations just a few short miles away from each other. You also obviously assume that breweries do NOTHING at all to treat their water, which isn't the case (hell, I've helped with the water treatment process at a couple of local production breweries). Further, the presumption that, in the entire state of Colorado, there isn't any water appropriate for brewing is just, well, wrong.

    And you obviously think that, because of this, Colorado breweries CAN'T make great beer. Think whatever you personally want about that, but I'll point to the numerous reviews from Grand Cicerones and brewers as well as awards that Colorado breweries have won numerous awards at BJCP certified competitions, including GABF and the WBC, that would suggest otherwise.

    Instead, I would contend that all the regions you list make both great beer...and shitty beer too! Knowing how to manage the terroir, water included, is part of being a great brewer--and there are great brewers...and less effective ones...in Colorado just as there are in other regions.
    Last edited by oilersfan; 07-20-2017 at 10:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    I'm not buying that there's anything wrong with Colorado's water.
    ...and you would be correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oilersfan View Post
    you obviously think that, because of this, Colorado breweries CAN'T make great beer.
    I already spoke to "different palettes"
    I'm judging Colorado's water based on my double-blind taste comparisons of New Belgium, Ft, Collins, Avery, Boulder Brewing, etc. against Oregon, N. Cali and Great Lakes region brewers. Colorado always falls flat.
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    I already spoke to "different palettes"
    I'm judging Colorado's water based on my double-blind taste comparisons of New Belgium, Ft, Collins, Avery, Boulder Brewing, etc. against Oregon, N. Cali and Great Lakes region brewers. Colorado always falls flat.
    And the basis for your conclusion that the reason you didn't like the beers as much was because of the water they used was...? If all Colorado breweries used the same water supply I could see the criticism but, obviously, they don't.

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    Just pretend you are arguing with Facelift and respond accordingly
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Just pretend you are arguing with Facelift and respond accordingly
    MT is reasonable. Nestor not so much.

    But your argument here, MT, does feel a little post hoc-y.

    Not that anyone can argue taste, though. I've tried dozens of super hoppy ales and don't like them. Once that IBU gets above 30, I am wary. Should I be more open-minded? Maybe. But there's only so much time and only so many dill-infused barrel aged sours to try.
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    MT is reasonable. Nestor not so much.

    But your argument here, MT, does feel a little post hoc-y.

    Not that anyone can argue taste, though. I've tried dozens of super hoppy ales and don't like them. Once that IBU gets above 30, I am wary. Should I be more open-minded? Maybe. But there's only so much time and only so many dill-infused barrel aged sours to try.
    My limited exposure to sours turned me off. I'd be willing to try a quality rec though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oilersfan View Post
    Yeah, Crooked Stave, Ska, Black Project, TRVE, Baere, Avery, Great Divide, Funkwerks, Comrade...those guys obviously have no idea what they're doing.
    Although I am partial to Michigan breweries, we have been to quite a few small microbreweries in the Boulder area that I thought were good. Also, the brewery up in Estes Park makes some good stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    MT is reasonable. Nestor not so much.

    But your argument here, MT, does feel a little post hoc-y.

    Not that anyone can argue taste, though. I've tried dozens of super hoppy ales and don't like them. Once that IBU gets above 30, I am wary. Should I be more open-minded? Maybe. But there's only so much time and only so many dill-infused barrel aged sours to try.
    but there's the thing... Oiler is arguing taste. In my vast (not superficial) experience, Colorado beers are not as good. I'm from NY and live in AZ but I don't go all fanboy drooly over NY or AZ brews. In fact, the water in AZ is worse than CO and no AZ brew is up to CO quality. Which BTW, brings me to...

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    Although I am partial to Michigan breweries, we have been to quite a few small microbreweries in the Boulder area that I thought were good. Also, the brewery up in Estes Park makes some good stuff.
    I actually have a couple of 'daily drinkers' I buy from CO. Boulder Brewery's Shake and Hazed and Infused are nice 'daily drinkers'... even if they don't stand up to OR, N. CA and Great Lakes region brews.

    It's all a matter of taste. Why Oiley wants to flog a dead horse is just bizarre
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  22. #822
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    ^ It is down to taste. I think it's the manner in which you were framing it that had everyone's head tilting a bit. Anyway, enough of that, move on...
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    Not quite beer snob quality but...
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    Dave Sr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notallwhowander View Post
    My limited exposure to sours turned me off. I'd be willing to try a quality rec though.
    Most of the sours I drink are local and, due to NC laws, are simply not available outside the state. If you're in NC (for, say, a certain Prog festival in September), then definitely check out beers from Burial (Asheville, mostly known for farmhouses and saisons), D9 (Cornelius, Whiskers on Kittens is their blonde sour), Steel String (Carrboro, Picklemania is their dill sour gose) and Fonta Flora. In fact, if you can find anything from Fonta Flora, get it. Locally sourced, farm-style, wild and unfiltered beers are their specialty. I think they're the best brewery going for the styles they produce.

    http://fontaflora.com/

    You should start seeing Wicked Weed beers across the country. As I've mentioned before, they were recently purchased by InBev/AB. There are reasons (I think I've gone into them before here) why I will no longer purchase Wicked Weed beer, but that doesn't mean they're not making tasty beers. Here's a list of their sours:
    https://wickedweedbrewing.com/beers/...eer_style=sour

    Fact is, they probably produce the best sours in the country.

    Then there are farmhouse/saisons, which is basically splitting hairs as to whether or not they are sours. Jester King out of Texas does that better than anyone else:
    http://jesterkingbrewery.com/beers/#beers_284

    I occasionally find their beers here in Charlotte (in fact, I think I have a few stashed away right now).

    For sours/farmhouse/saisons you should be able to find at any decent bottle shop or Total Wine type facility, try the following:

    Anything from Wild Beer Co.
    http://www.wildbeerco.com/

    Duchesse de Bourgogne. It is a Flemish Red (sour) that should be palatable to most beer drinkers:
    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/641/1745/

    Dogfish Head Sea Quench Ale. Lime and sea salt make this what they're calling a "session sour." Not sure how it's not a gose, but it's good:
    https://www.ratebeer.com/beer/dogfis...ch-ale/404361/


    For what it's worth, here's what I've got in my house right now.
    Jester King (T Simple Means (farmouse altbier with smoked malt)
    Westbrook (SC) Key Lime Pie Gose
    D9 (NC) Systema Naturae (sour with scippernong and lily)
    Quest Brewing (SC) Cucumber Jalapeno Saison
    Greenman (NC) Wilder (three year blended sour blonde)
    Uinta (UT) Birthday suit (sour cherry blonde ale)
    And the aforementioned Sea Quench

    My fridge is mostly full of pilsners and shandies right now as those are my every day drinking beers.
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