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Thread: Star Wars - The Force Awakens

  1. #51
    NEARfest Officer Emeritus Nearfest2's Avatar
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    Loved it.
    Chad

  2. #52
    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    The storyline was definitely "safe."
    That, it was. [DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THE FILM AND INTEND TO. You've been warned!] http://www.vox.com/2015/12/21/106326...w-hope?ref=yfp

  3. #53
    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    The easiest way to understand Star Wars, and understand the reason why the science in the SW universe is so anti-scientific, is to think of them as "sword-and-sorcery epics."
    That's exactly what it is, sword & sorcery in a space setting, i.e. space opera. The emphasis is on the story and conflict, not scientific realism. Things like time dilation have no place in the Star Wars universe.

  4. #54
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post
    Things like time dilation have no place in the Star Wars universe.
    Unfortunately true.

    Hence a whole generation (or two) of SW and ST fans think going to Mars is a weekend trip, bring a picnic basket, we'll make water & air once we get there.

  5. #55
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Unfortunately true.

    Hence a whole generation (or two) of SW and ST fans think going to Mars is a weekend trip, bring a picnic basket, we'll make water & air once we get there.
    That's right. We're all scientific dopes because Star Wars and Star Trek are our sole basis for scientific knowledge.
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  6. #56
    Member dropforge's Avatar
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  7. #57
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Unfortunately true.

    Hence a whole generation (or two) of SW and ST fans think going to Mars is a weekend trip, bring a picnic basket, we'll make water & air once we get there.


    C'mon. Be real.

    You love to throw scientific data into audio discussions, so, where is your data here?

    Back up your garbage.

    "whole generation (or two)" -- produce evidence.



    And fuck me!! I've torn apart a Speak 'N Spell and other household items and for 30+ years I've been trying to call E.T. using that device and the bastard never replies. Now you're going to tell us idiots that that contraption will never work?? Next thing you know, you're going to tell us that E.T. was actually a little man in a rubber costume. Nah… that would be ridiculous…

  8. #58
    Occipital Provocatee Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    That's right. We're all scientific dopes because Star Wars and Star Trek are our sole basis for scientific knowledge.
    lol!
    Just sitting at home rocking back and forth and jealously caressing my invisible collection of theoretical assets.

  9. #59
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    You love to throw scientific data into audio discussions, so, where is your data here?

    Back up your garbage.

    "whole generation (or two)" -- produce evidence.
    This is from a NASA site(!)
    http://planetquest.jpl.nasa.gov/news/239

    By the way Gruno? Science isn't "garbage."

  10. #60
    Member Guitarplyrjvb's Avatar
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    Oh, boy! The 6 or 7 yr. old kid that sat next to me obviously knew nothing of quantum cosmology, particle physics, or relativity. He did, however, gape in wide-eyed wonder at the movie. That sense of wonderment is a necessasry catalyst to scientific inquiry. It may one day inspire him to study the real thing!

    The movie was very entertaining and successfully rebooted the franchise. Not very big on originality, though!

  11. #61
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    This is from a NASA site(!)
    http://planetquest.jpl.nasa.gov/news/239

    By the way Gruno? Science isn't "garbage."

    When I said, "back up your garbage", I was referring to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Hence a whole generation (or two) of SW and ST fans think going to Mars is a weekend trip, bring a picnic basket, we'll make water & air once we get there.

    The garbage = your generalizations. You are wrong, because to define "whole" is to mean "all" or "entire". So, you're wrong, because if even one person thinks otherwise, your statement is false. There's no science involved with your definition.

    You made a futile attempt to jump in on the Mad Max: Fury Road thread to inject your realism into the discussion about a action/fantasy flick. Now, you're attempting to do the same here.

    That's some pattern you have.


    Good day, sir.

    I said, Good Day!

  12. #62
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    That's some pattern you have.
    So I like a little SCIENCE in my science-fiction, sue me.

    Star Wars, to their credit, did at least ATTEMPT to explain interstellar FTL travel by means of the "warp drive." Before making the jump you had to map all the stars between you and your destination or you'd be smashed to atoms. While you were "in transit" time stood still and all the stars merged into a blur. So far so good.

    But then this "Jedi mind tricks" bullshit, dragging the 24th Century down to the 14th (or maybe 4th) Century level. Bah! The science was awesome enough -- they didn't need magic to give it a wow factor.

    My only problem with Mad Max was that they had plenty of gasoline and ammunition after civilization collapsed -- which we both know will be the first to disappear.

  13. #63
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    But then this "Jedi mind tricks" bullshit, dragging the 24th Century down to the 14th (or maybe 4th) Century level. Bah!


    Have you never read the opening:



    If you did, you should realize that the entire Star Wars series takes place in the past.



    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    My only problem with Mad Max was that they had plenty of gasoline and ammunition after civilization collapsed -- which we both know will be the first to disappear.
    I don't recall it being said that they have plenty (as you claim) gas & ammunition. Also, I have no reason to believe both gas & ammo will be "the first to disappear" in a situation like Mad Max.

    Now, since you saw the film, I figured you would have caught on that bullets are made at Bullet Farm and fuel is generated in Gas Town. Produce, milk (mother's milk), and water (aqua cola) all come from the Citadel, where Immortan Joe lives. There are multiple references to all of those locations throughout the film.


    The People Eater is the Warlord governing Gas Town.




    The Bullet Farmer governs the Bullet Farm.



    …and before you continue…

    I'm sure they get their guitar & bass strings from Guitar Center -- that place will always be around!



    If you have anything further about Mad Max, I think it best to take it to that thread and not continue with it here.

  14. #64
    WARNING. There Might be spoiler in this, and If you haven't seen the TFA yet, it's better to know nothing. . .

    I ended up rating it just a Bit Better than Return of the Jedi (which of course means, it's "light years" better than any of the prequels).

    I LIKED

    Fin the stormtrooper and Rae (Ray?) the Girl. Mr Abrams could have actually made something memorable if he had given us more context / backstory on those two and cut some moments away from the legacy stars (e.g Harrison & Carrie). In particular the concept of the Force acting through a stormtrooper who turned away from the "empire" might have been really interesting. Mr Abrams might have also been able to do really different / interesting things with "The Force" acting through an untrained neophyte (Rae) if one resisted the urge to have her able to compete with trained evil dudes in 10 seconds (yeah right. . .)

    The New Vader. Leaving aside the lame ass pop-pyschology retreads (I am your father- No Son. . . Luke, No I mean Han!), the idea of a hot/undamaged good-side rejector who actually enjoyed the power & glory of omnipotence might have been fun. There were hints of a power struggle between Jacen and the General (which would have been interesting), but it wasn't developed.

    I Was Annoyed by

    The legacy actors. IMHO Harrison did OK, but needed some new sH_t to work with. But on the good side he can't have many more scenes to do. Ms Fisher was more or less a waste of space in every scene she got (very different from the first three). Chewbacca was Fine. Maz was Yoda with weirder glasses. Perhaps Mark Hamill will redeem them all (we'll have to wait to find out).

    My Suspension of Disbelief couldn't encompass

    It's 30 years later and everything has gone to Hell in a Handbasket So Soon?? What is the appeal of the "Empire" here?? Why aren't the "Rebels" still running the show?? One can overdo the political situation, but the jump from a triumphant Rebel Victory of Return of the Jedi to the New Empire was very jarring.

    The general sense that the whole thing was Star Wars I with different leads. We even start in a desert world where the principals live by scavenging. BB = R2. There's a scene on a bridge over a large drop / gulf. They have to kill a planet sized weapon through exceptionally Good Flying. Work in some New Sh_t (please!)

    So All in All a lot better than the "prequels" but a LONG way from a classic.

    just Saying
    KGH

    and of course, these are OPINIONS. YMMV.

    PS A lot of the same sort of complaints could have been leveled at the whole "Hobbit" franchise. Perhaps there's a general rule that you should only ever attempt 3 movies for any given franchise. After that, you're just repeating yourself. . .
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  15. #65
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KGHofSF View Post
    I LIKED

    Fin the stormtrooper and Rae (Ray?) the Girl. Mr Abrams could have actually made something memorable if he had given us more context / backstory on those two and cut some moments away from the legacy stars (e.g Harrison & Carrie). In particular the concept of the Force acting through a stormtrooper who turned away from the "empire" might have been really interesting. Mr Abrams might have also been able to do really different / interesting things with "The Force" acting through an untrained neophyte (Rae) if one resisted the urge to have her able to compete with trained evil dudes in 10 seconds (yeah right. . .)
    I like how he handled this. Abrams now has people talking about the possibilities. There's some mystery, and you now look forward to a new film, hoping for some exposition. Remember, there was a lot of vagueness in A New Hope, too. The Force Awakens worked well (IMO) as a hand-off between the previous characters and the new ones. The older characters gave us a point of reference, but from most of what I'm reading, people are much more interested in the backstories and futures of Rey, Finn, Kylo Rey and Snoke, which is what you would want, I'd think. And, apparently, the next film will begin to deviate much more from the "A New Hope, Part II" story of The Force Awakens.
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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    I like how he handled this. Abrams now has people talking about the possibilities. There's some mystery, and you now look forward to a new film, hoping for some exposition. Remember, there was a lot of vagueness in A New Hope, too. The Force Awakens worked well (IMO) as a hand-off between the previous characters and the new ones. The older characters gave us a point of reference, but from most of what I'm reading, people are much more interested in the backstories and futures of Rey, Finn, Kylo Rey and Snoke, which is what you would want, I'd think. And, apparently, the next film will begin to deviate much more from the "A New Hope, Part II" story of The Force Awakens.
    I agree. I am under the impression that many of the questions KGH... asks will be explored further in the next two films.

  17. #67
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    I think the biggest difference between New Hope and Force Awakens is that New Hope could have been a one-and-done movie. There was no real cliffhanger there (except maybe Vader spiraling off into space), whereas Force Awakens was clearly developed as the first of a series of films. Many detractors are saying that there wasn't enough backstory done, which, while I love the movie, agree with that.
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  18. #68
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paythesnuka View Post
    Many detractors are saying that there wasn't enough backstory done, which, while I love the movie, agree with that.
    Most reviews I've read are positive (with the acknowledged similarities between Eps. 4 & 7), and of those that are positive, most love the fact that Abrams didn't explain everything that was alluded to. Much like the Clone Wars and "dark times" were alluded to but not expanded upon in Ep. 4.
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  19. #69
    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KGHofSF View Post
    PS A lot of the same sort of complaints could have been leveled at the whole "Hobbit" franchise. Perhaps there's a general rule that you should only ever attempt 3 movies for any given franchise. After that, you're just repeating yourself. . .
    They choose to emphasize the Force and the conflicts intrinsic to being a Jedi and a Sith. For the main trilogy, anyway. I hope the next installment is much more original and not The First Order Strikes Back.

    The standalone movies, like Rogue One, appear to be aimed at non-Jedi-centric themes.

  20. #70
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    I'm taking my wife and my thriving inner-child to see this tonight, and I expect to be fully entertained and satisfied. Booking my weekend trip tickets to Mars next week.

  21. #71
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    I saw it. Loved it. Felt genuinely uplifted when I left the theater. But - everything Duncan says is absolutely right. Hopefully this is used as a launching point to develop something more original, since there were a lot of good things about this movie. I think the point was to couch the unfamiliar in the familiar and hopefully more chances will be taken as the series goes on.
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  22. #72
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    I went in not expecting much, and left feeling I got more than I expected.
    • Humor - yes! Sadly lacking from 1-3
    • Grit - yes some
    • Acting - all the actors appeared to be flesh-and-blood, not wooden (as in 1-3)
    • Surprises (well, maybe a few)
    • Setting up the next movie (lots of unresolved plot points)
    • Special effects were the best of the series
    • Plot... well, this was the weakest point IMO but one is almost willing to forgive that
    • A cast of THOUSANDS -- did you stay to read the credits? There must have been 2,000 names up there


    There's one aspect of the story, which you see in all the big blockbuster apocalypse movies, which kinda bothers me. This was especially prevalent in Independence Day. That is, you have one or two characters you're supposed to care about. Everybody else dies, but because the two characters survive, everything is portrayed as a huge victory. Boo-rah.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    I went in not expecting much, and left feeling I got more than I expected.
    • Humor - yes! Sadly lacking from 1-3
    • Grit - yes some
    • Acting - all the actors appeared to be flesh-and-blood, not wooden (as in 1-3)
    • Surprises (well, maybe a few)
    • Setting up the next movie (lots of unresolved plot points)
    • Special effects were the best of the series
    • Plot... well, this was the weakest point IMO but one is almost willing to forgive that
    • A cast of THOUSANDS -- did you stay to read the credits? There must have been 2,000 names up there


    There's one aspect of the story, which you see in all the big blockbuster apocalypse movies, which kinda bothers me. This was especially prevalent in Independence Day. That is, you have one or two characters you're supposed to care about. Everybody else dies, but because the two characters survive, everything is portrayed as a huge victory. Boo-rah.
    Pretty much my thoughts exactly.

  24. #74
    Man, I hate JJ Abrams. He is well known for creating mysteries that he later never answers. He did it with Alias and he did with Lost and he screwed up Star Trek (Spock had a sex drive? What? He was a horn dog?) and now he is recreating Star Wars with a more diverse cast, for which everyone will sing huzzah (I am seriously all for more diversity on screen, but this seems so obvious). The direction the story took was completely predictable, even the one death that occurred. And I find it hard now to have my "willing suspension of disbelief," which is what you guys are really discussing. At least, when Joss Whedon did "Firefly" he made sure that the space battles had no sound, since sound can't propagate in a vacuum. And how the hell does BB-8 actually work? The head is not connected to the body. I know, why ask?

    Plus, for all the diversity in the film, try to find a Rae action figure. You can find a "scavenger" figurine if you're lucky, but not one that names her by name; they think boys won't buy it otherwise...

    Plus, this is more Disney taking over the world. They are going to commercialize this to death- tie-ins, movie series and spin-offs that the fan will have to see, comics, books, clothing, an amusement park, etc. This ties in with what they are doing with Marvel comics- linking the movies to TV shows (Agents of SHIELD, Jessica Jones), and then to comic series, to books, so that the fan has to buy everything just to know what the hell is going on. Long time ago I collected comics, but the changes, alternate series, linked books, and spread out over a million different comics just made it impossible and has killed the medium. There are more and more with less and less.
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  25. #75
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana5140 View Post
    Plus, this is more Disney taking over the world. They are going to commercialize this to death-
    Ummm, Dana?

    Perhaps you missed the past 38 years, and didn't notice.

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