Just relax. Any classic influenced organ driven band will be like ELP. Every band using flute like Jethro Tull, using violin makes you like Kansas etc.
None of these band really invented this features or were the first to do it.
As long as a band makes good music, and Triumvirat certainly does, I don't care for similarities.
That wasn't necessarily a bad thing, by the way.Originally Posted by 2geeze
Any of you folks heard Helmut Koellen's solo album You Won't See Me?
If so, impressions?
I find it delightful, with an accessible mixture of styles thrown in, and topped off with Koellen's beautiful vocals and guitar playing. Also with Jurgen Fritz on keys. Produced and engineered by Mr. Fritz along with Conny Plank.
It is wrongly overlooked.
"and what music unites, man should not take apart"-Helmut Koellen
I thought that any band with organs, Moogs, and ripping off of classical music screams ELP? To me, any heavy band with a Hammond organ screams Deep Purple or Uriah Heep.
I don't know about the flute thing. Peter Gabriel played flute when he was with Genesis. They aren't called Tull copies. There is a lot flute in Moody Blues music...no Tull comparisons. Focus had flute playing too.
Now if I mention Horslips ok there is some Jethro Tull similarities there.
Other than Genesis and Tull, what prog bands featured LEAD SINGERS that played flute? I think that people mention Tull when talking about rock bands were first because Tull came before Genesis, and Ian played some rocking flute.
FOCUS
VISIBLE WIND
CAMEL
other bands (not lead singer) - King Crimson PFM
Bloodrock after Warren Ham joined
I'm a big Bloodrock fan (all periods)
"and what music unites, man should not take apart"-Helmut Koellen
I meant lead singers that play flute, and nothing else. Andrew Latimer from Camel didn't always play flute in Camel, Focus has singer/keys/flute player, and I've heard of Visible Wind.
Tull's first album was This Was in 1968 and Genesis's first album was From Genesis to Revelation in 1969. I guess you can say they came first but not by much.
Peter didn't play any flute on FGTR, but Ian played flute on This Was. So, I was right. Don't ever mess with the kid.
I think Side 1 of Pompeii is pretty good stuff. Side 2 gets a bit wonky though.
Perhaps they are sounds by an electric piano?
does anyone else think the tracklisting on Illusions on a Double Dimple is off? for example there's a song called Roundabout which has that line "aren't you a lucky girl", and then the next song is called Lucky Girl and it's an instrumental...there are a few examples of that. maybe this was on purpose but they wouldnt be the first German band to have a bunch of songs mislabeled
Critter Jams "album of the week" blog: http://critterjams.wordpress.com
Anybody find Jürgen Fritz technically good, but a poorer composer? Some of his stuff seems to be 30 seconds riffs attached together with hardly a good hook or transition. It's like he can't write anything if Emerson didn't do it first. If Keith got a certain sound from a keyboard or an organ on a certain album, you'll be sure to hear the exact same sound on the next Triumvirat album.
Definitely the poor man's ELP. I think he hit on a few interesting compositional ideas on Illusions and Spartacus, but otherwise, I find their stuff either too blatantly derivative, or simply amateurish and/or dull as dishwater. I do enjoy those two albums, though, in a Starcastle kind of way.
Bill
I can't get into the first two. I tried. I like Spartacus a lot, and Old Loves Die Hard is rather good. I don't care for anything they made afterward.
I liked about half of Pompei, mostly due to Curt Cress' drumming.
Not me. I find Triumvrat to be jam-packed with catchy hooks. And his compositions are quite entertaining and crazy. I even find a couple of their albums to be more consistent and solid than a typical ELP album, where ELP tried different things and was either a swing or a miss. Overall Keith was obviously the better composer by miles, don't get me wrong. But I really enjoy Triumvirat for what they created, which perhaps is a terrific supplement of keyboard prog for keyboard prog lovers.
There are unmistakenly many ELP influences in the first two Triumvirat records but straight copycat/clones they weren't. Triumvirat had their own instantly recognizable style, in a blind listening test you can't confuse them with ELP.
And ELP never recorded anything sounding like Spartacus or Pompei either. And why bother ? In the 70ies I bought both the ELP and Triumvirat records and enjoyed them all (and still do). Triumvirat was less "complex" (they never composed something so ambitious as Tarkus or K.E9) with more "easy going" catchy themes. Also the production was much more "cleaner" and polished (some may say "clinical") than ELP who had a more dirtier "live" sound on their studio records, (which I think was deliberate).
I think there's a place for both bands in any serious prog collection, and there's really no need for all these derogatory comparisons.
I still consider Spartacus as a fantastic and very consistent record, with excellent compositions and wonderful production, a real prog classic.
Last edited by Mr.Krautman; 3 Weeks Ago at 10:03 PM.
History of the Mystery on Old Loves Die Hard is such a great tune. I wish there was more game show theme prog like that. Anyway I agree that Triumvirat had their own style but they were sonically so close to ELP that their reputation as copycats is deserved. And so what, who wouldn't want a few more great ELP albums?
Critter Jams "album of the week" blog: http://critterjams.wordpress.com
I agree with everyone that Spartacus is a good album, ELP's obvious influences included (Karn Evil 9 Impression 1). The two that follow have some good tracks too, but not as good overall as Spartacus. I also have a harder time with the more disjointed, I find, first two albums. There's even the blatant "stop the music and AAAHHHHH" of Close to the Edge on Illusion
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