Quote:
When Triumvirat were touring the States, Jurgen Fritz was interviewed and asked "that question"-What do you think of all the talk about Triumvirat sounding like ELP, and he responded "Well, i'm flattered. But there are aspects of Triumvirat's sound that are similar to ELP, and aspects that are different."
I should have pointed specifically to the debut, not Between the Universes. The debut has a definite flair of ELP, not only in arrangements, chord progressions, synth piruettas and overall sound, but in general concept; the bombast contrasted with the odd acoustic tune, the deliberately silly take on the schlager (here: a nonsensical version of "Lady Madonna", as opposed to a throwaway "Nutrocker") etc. But for the record: I don't really dislike Tritonus either.
"Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
"[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM
If you two have listened to KE9 and OLDH without noticing ripoff after ripoff in terms of style, structure, tone ... gosh, everything down to drum fills and finales, I think Triumvirat would be dissapointed.
Orme is no "clone" band, but the influence is quite profound. Iirc, Pagliuca even went to London to meet Emerson and then came back ready to combine classical and rock; hence Collage. I'm a huge fan or nearly everything Orme did, but to find these comparisons "surpising" is a bit odd, IMO.
I think you're listened to the details too much and not listened to the music. Sure there are a lot of 'rip offs' in phrasing and style but the melodies and songs are their own. It certainly doesn't make the music less enjoyable to me. It's not as if there are a billion bands that do this style after all.
On the other hand, there are a ton bands that sound like the Velvet Underground, Iron Maiden, Dream Theater etc ... yet those bands don't get crap thrown at them like Triumvirat does.
Or Tyburn Tall who really PERFECTED the "great organ + awful vox" formula. Admittedly, the guy's voice was different to Jackson's, but similarly bad if not worse.Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor
Worse. Much worse. I think Klaus Frenesius may be the worst rock & roll vocalist I’ve heard. Ever. I didn’t think it could get worse than Gottfried Janko’s *ahem!* “singing” on Jane’s Lady album. Then I heard Tyburn Tall. The singing is actually quite painful, only the vox on Clowns by Nuova Idea (which I heard later) come anywhere close to this level of awfulness. (And this coming from someone who thinks Lee Jackson’s reputation as the “worst singer ever” is way, way overblown!)
Tetragon = yaaaawn! If you want to hear an ELP knockoff with a little bit of meat on their bones, seek out the Amos Key album.
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MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")
"That's my purse! I don't know you!" --Bobby Hill
N.P.:“Sun Trip”-Grobschnitt
They credited on later pressings, and if I recall correct there was an issue with Janacecks wife about permissions or money - which got solved in the end?
First of all: Jane were horrible, absolutely terrible in general (IMHO). That Live at Home thing is pure torture if you try listening to it all the way through. There's quite simply nothing happening in there - except for bad "songwriting". Second, Nuova Idea's Clowns is one of those instances where the whole work is basically ruined by someone's incomptetence at what they are trying to accomplish - here the vocals of Ricky Belloni. And it's a shame, seeing how the material was arguably some of the strongest these musicians attempted in terms of being "progressive". Third, I never said I particularly liked the Tetragon release, although the closing title track (the only one with vocals, IIRC) is fairly enjoyable. And last, I'm not too keen on the Amos Key album either. For great ELP soundalikes (with as much personality of their own), why not cut straight to the main course and find the legendary Polyphony record?
For the best vox ever, sported by great video to boot:
"Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
"[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM
I don't get it either. Clone or not, I really enjoyed a few of the Starcastle and Triumvrat albums when I discovered them in the late 80s (especially Spartacus and Fountains of Light). Same goes for Citizen Cain's Somewhere But Yesterday, a Genesis clone that I discovered a few years later, and still pull out to this day. Just today, I was telling someone how much I like Alexi Murdoch, though many call him a Nick Drake clone. Not sure why there's so much emotion about this topic. If I like an album, I just appreciate that it was made...
I think it is important that one should not make sweeping generalizations about Triumvirat. For example, dismissing them in one stroke as an "ELP clone" is unfair to the band.
As Jurgen Fritz himself said, there are aspects similar to ELP, and aspects that are not.
Also, Triumvirat themselves went through several musical phases, so, again, generalizations are unfair.
"and what music unites, man should not take apart"-Helmut Koellen
Nonsense.
Jane has two sensational hard rock albums (Together and Here We Are) that show more innovation and brainpower for songwriting in their chosen field (progressive hard rock) than anything Triumvirat ever did in their field (prog/symph).
Live At Home is a quality hard rock album with nice songwriting throughout. I'd even rate "Windows" as "epic" in its own way, although it drags a bit with the spacey keys stuff.
Never understood the passionate distaste for this by some. Great album with very unique and powerful falsetto vocals by Belloni. It's no wonder the real deal (New Trolls) grabbed him.
Last edited by JeffCarney; 01-07-2013 at 09:53 PM.
Yes, I have now changed my mind completely. Live at Home is spectacularly fantastic, in fact quite possibly the greatest album ever by anyone. I was mistaken, and you were correct. Vocals and songwriting is extraordinarily fabulous and the innovation in these unfathomably intelligent chord progressions (which luckily continue for 15-20 minutes at a time) is nothing short of brainshatteringly staggering. Rarely have I heard such a shockingly subtle progressive hard rock - very, very progressive and hard at that.
And I never said I was a huge Triumvirat fan. Jane, however, is the best of all time.
"Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
"[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM
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