The Old Way vs The New Way

**MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER** · 12-01-2015

Originally Posted by Koreabruce

IISGWCHIWD

Although I do agree that yes, it IS truly great to get a bunch of musicians in a room making music organically (whether or not one of them plays the organ). In the end, the proof of the aural pudding is in the listener's discerning ears.

I guess you'll continue to create new threads to drive this point home until.... ? Not sure what you're trying to accomplish by all the repetition.

I THINK THERE ARE MORE THAN A FEW OF US WHO WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHY HE KEEPS BRINGING THIS UP

**NogbadTheBad** · 12-01-2015

Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER

I THINK THERE ARE MORE THAN A FEW OF US WHO WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHY HE KEEPS BRINGING THIS UP

Because he's a one issue troll.

**Finch Platte** · 12-01-2015

Originally Posted by No Pride

"DOH!"

D'oh!

Fixed that for you.

**Skullhead** · 12-01-2015

Take Led Zeppelin for example. Four guys who all were vital to the collective sound of the band. Certainly they were one of the greatest rock bands in history.
They were also slowly heading into progressive rock more and more as the years went by. They did this in a natural way as they improved as musicians.

Now suppose Jimmy Page was handed Pro Tools instead of handed Bonham, and Jones. He does need a singer so he finds Plant. He can save money because he doesn't need to pay the other guys. He doesn't need a drummer because he has samples or can use a different guy and use triggers to get the sound he wants. He digitally alters Plant's voice with pitch shifters and auto tune. They make records and don't find the need to tour. Maybe they tour a little with some other musicians who come and go.

The result? It's different, but Led Zeppelin doesn't happen. Physical Graffiti never happens… SRTS never happens.

The old way was a completely different approach and experience for both the band, and ultimately the listener.
Floyd's DSOTM doesn't happen. It would have become Roger Waters controlling the Pro Tools screen more than likely and come out more like his solo work.

Why don't we see bands working together as they did before? Because they don't have to. It's not necessary. However, necessity is often the mother of invention. The lack of digital editing certainly demands much more of the artists skill set.

The value of vinyl records is trumping that of CD's big time. Why? Because it is a tangible physical product, often made the old way that is connecting with the purchasing listener. Vinyl record stores are on the rise. CD only stores are nearly non existent. Will a flash drive of digital downloads of the complete Zeppelin catalog ever have the same value as the vinyl box set? Not likely, and there is a very good reason for this. Digital music is nearly worthless. It's too easily copied, the album cover art is non existent so it doesn't play into it. It's like walking into an art museum and snapping digital photos of all the art and those photos while recognizable on a computer screen are going to be worth little to nothing regardless of how well they are further digitally enhanced.

A lot of the vinyl today is being digitally recorded then pressed onto vinyl. That has little interest to most because they can just listen to the digital version and it sounds just as good without the clicks and pops of vinyl.

Will there be digital art museums in the future? "WOW! it's just incredible what they did in photoshop, just amazing! No different with music.

**taliesin** · 12-01-2015

Any chance we can call the humane society and make him leave this dead horse alone?

**Steve F.** · 12-01-2015

Originally Posted by Jerjo

starting at about 5:25, skullhead talks about the quality of recorded music

I (very vaguely) know Joe Bussard and when Skullhead started this thread, I immediately thought of Joe...

**Gruno** · 12-01-2015

If it sounds good, who cares how it was done.

**rcarlberg** · 12-01-2015

I think you are conflating two unrelated issues.

In one, Led Zeppelin exists only in Jimmy Page's head and the contributions from Bonzo, Robert and John in terms of working out the material and finalizing the songs are missing. That's not Led Zeppelin. That's "Jimmy Page's Led Zeppelin" at best, and not likely to approach the genius of the chemistry of those four.

In the other, you're indicating that digital files are "worthless" because they can be copied. That ignores the whole quality issue, and maybe throws out the baby with the bath water. Yes, the music industry missed the boat (a couple of times) by not controlling reproduction, and inadvertently allowing file sharing services to decrease the perceived value of music files. But that is not an indictment of digital recording, it's a stupidity in the front office.

**Rarebird** · 12-01-2015

I suppose without modern multitrack techniques Mike Oldfield wouldn't have recorded Tubular Bells.

**Scott Bails** · 12-01-2015

Music was better when we were just banging on rocks. Better sound quality, better collaboration, and it was pure, man.

**Kcrimso** · 12-01-2015

Originally Posted by Skullhead

Will there be digital art museums in the future? "WOW! it's just incredible what they did in photoshop, just amazing! No different with music.

There is lots of digital art in the museums already.

**NogbadTheBad** · 12-01-2015

But is it good art?

from Ians phone

**Soc Prof** · 12-01-2015

Originally Posted by Skullhead

Great musicians in the same room making an album together, relating directly to one another and tracking to analog tape

vs

The one man band making a recording using pre canned samples from a program or the web.

This looks like a false choice fallacy to me. Musicians today are not using one single way to make music.

**No Pride** · 12-01-2015

Originally Posted by Skullhead

Why don't we see bands working together as they did before?

We do. TONS of them! It's just that nowadays, there's people making music on their own (utilizing the way you hate) in addition to those bands. And thanks to the Internet, everybody can put their stuff out there in hopes to get heard. There's just way more music out there than there ever has been. But a good deal of it is still bands... and they still get together to write, rehearse, record (even in the same room, playing together at the same time) and play out. I hate to break it to you and rain on your doom party, but the sky is NOT falling, Chicken Little.

**Mascodagama** · 12-01-2015

Originally Posted by Scott Bails

Music was better when we were just banging on rocks. Better sound quality, better collaboration, and it was pure, man.

Preach it, brother!

Y'know, my friend says it all went wrong when Edison came out with the wax cylinder. But I don't agree. It was never the same after they invented musical notation. I mean once you've written it all down on a piece of paper the music just doesn't sound natural any more.

**Gruno** · 12-01-2015

Originally Posted by Scott Bails

Music was better when we were just banging on rocks. Better sound quality, better collaboration, and it was pure, man.

If musicians are wasting their day writing lyrics on a computer, what has the world come to??? Will you accept this travesty??

STOP THE MADNESS!

ALL lyrics must be written like this, or you are just wasting your time.

**zravkapt** · 12-01-2015

What about robots playing the same room together? Does that count?

**Scott Bails** · 12-01-2015

**moecurlythanu** · 12-01-2015

I think it's time someone posted this. Sing along with me if you know it. It can be our theme song, all of us together. Come and join the revolution!

**Plasmatopia** · 12-01-2015

Originally Posted by Skullhead

Take Led Zeppelin for example. Four guys who all were vital to the collective sound of the band. Certainly they were one of the greatest rock bands in history.
They were also slowly heading into progressive rock more and more as the years went by. They did this in a natural way as they improved as musicians.

Which album (or perhaps albums) was the one where Page stayed up all night overdubbing guitar parts? How natural was that? Was something lost and was the music forever rendered substandard and worthless because he wasn't in the same room with the others?

**Jerjo** · 12-01-2015

That was Presence. He did all the overdubs in one marathon session. Keith Harwood was the engineer and apparently he and Page took turns waking each other up if one of them would fall asleep. The Stones were booked to use the studio next and Zep didn't have much time to wrap up the recording. Given the amount of guitar tracks on Achilles Last Stand it's either a testament to Page's willpower or the strength of the heroin available in Germany.

**Plasmatopia** · 12-01-2015

Originally Posted by Jerjo

That was Presence. He did all the overdubs in one marathon session. Keith Harwood was the engineer and apparently he and Page took turns waking each other up if one of them would fall asleep. The Stones were booked to use the studio next and Zep didn't have much time to wrap up the recording. Given the amount of guitar tracks on Achilles Last Stand it's either a testament to Page's willpower or the strength of the heroin available in Germany.

Ah yes, I remember now the mention of Achilles Last Stand being one of the songs he worked on that night. Oh well, as long as it was natural and pure heroin...