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Thread: Prog Artists...Why do they allow Streaming?

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    Problem is: those who hear streams and then buy hard media or digital where the artist is reasonably compensated, is the minority. If everyone were like you, we wouldn't have a problem.
    Word. This
    And the code is a play, a play is a song, a song is a film, a film is a dance...

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    Damn straight. That said, I am not so sure I agree with the first point, about having to hear an album in it's entirety.

    I used to love buying music and being completely surprised by it when I got it home to hear. More often than not it was a great experience; I feel I've been burned by taking risks just a handful of times since I started buying music in 1968-69. And I still don't "taste test" albums before I buy...even artists I don't know. Because if someone(s) I know and respect tell me enough, I have a pretty good idea I'll love it even without sampling.

    I really think we've lost that wonderful experience of surprise....
    Oh yeah. Back in the day, you'd hear a single or something on the radio and get the album on the basis of that. I discovered most of the music i loved that way. More obscure things, which i loved, like Egg or Soft Machine, say, were strictly based on word of mouth of having heard something at a friend's house. FM radio played great stuff and a lot of progressive things back then. PFM, Gentle Giant, Genesis were all FM radio discoveries for me. I heard one or two tunes by the group and then bought albums based on liking the group. Nowadays, some folks practically need the whole record in their hands before "deciding to buy" (rare). It has changed the way many people listen as well as how they acquire music. Sad but true... times do change. And there are pros and cons to the new delivery mechanisms, for sure. Still... it's different now with the less open radio formats.
    And the code is a play, a play is a song, a song is a film, a film is a dance...

  3. #103
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    From my own point of view, my band Field of Vision released an EP earlier this year, and spent around 3000 recording & a few hundred more on pressing 1000 copies on CD, thinking fans of "prog" are mostly of an age group where owning a physical product is more desirable than a download, which in turn is more desirable than streaming repeatedly. If you buy the CD, you also get an immediate download in your choice of FLAC or MP3.

    However, I am finding that the vast majority people are streaming, many are downloading and very few are buying CD. OK, the cd costs more than download, but even so. And this is something many other bands I know are finding too, so it's not because we suck (at least, I hope we don't suck )

    Money wasn't the object of the release, but it would be nice if we could get something back that enabled us to record a full album. However, the royalty from streaming is so poor that we will never see anything meaningful back from this. Even if a thousand people bought a download we would see something that gave us a chance, and a few hundred CD sales would be great. The reality, however, is that we will have to dig deep again. This will never amount to more than a hobby, and an expensive one at that. We do it because we love it, and want others to love it, but sadly, even many longterm prog fans don't seem to place as much "value" on "new" music anymore.

    However, if we don't stream on the big platforms, we won't get heard unless we can drive traffic to the website in meaningful numbers.

    Streaming - damned if we do, damned if we don't.

    BTW if anyone is interested, were at www.fieldofvisionmusic.com

  4. #104
    Member Guitarplyrjvb's Avatar
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    ^^ You seem to have decided that you have to give your music away for free. Why not use the limited play model that Bandcamp offers? That way, you either buy or fly! You can still be "heard", but if you want to monetize those listeners, you're going to have to back away from unlimited streaming.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Phlakaton View Post
    I never go to a movie without seeing a trailer. Just to argue. lol Sorry.
    A trailer ain't the same as seeing the whole film, to be equally argumentative



    A trailer for a film is like an epi for an album...or one minute track samples at places like Amazon - which, while I personally rarely use, are fine. It's this idea of having to hearnthebwhole album before deciding to buy that is,the issue...and while I understand the economics, it really does kill the wonderful sound of surprise when opening an album for the first time, and putting it on.

    For me, few things beat that...

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    I have not made that mistake, John. All you did was add "or lack the resources" to my broader point.
    Well, in my experience, resources is the primary reason...not lack of knowledge, lack of caring, or weariness of the fight. They do care. They just can't afford a full time person to scour the web ... Which for even mid-tier musicians, is what's required. And so they have to accept the reality, even if they don't like it.

    So, sorry, but it's not an add-on; it's the primary reason from what I hear from many musicians, including names that might surprise you (but I'll not reveal as it would be a breach of trust, so you'll either Abe to trust me...or not)

    But you suggested, and I quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    ...that the vast majority of legal content holders don't know, don't care, or grow weary of that chase.
    And that is simply not true. But I didn't actually say you made a mistake anyway; I simply said not to mistake lack of action for the three reasons you cited as applying to the majority. There's a difference.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarplyrjvb View Post
    I guess my only point was: if you want to make money, you shouldn't be offering full albums for streaming and should employ the DGM/Cunieform model.
    And that is true....but then you have to be prepared to accept the wrath of fans who want your music available as streams...and that's not always easy. ECM Records, for example, has always been about sonics, but had to make a concession and begin offering their music "Mastered for iTunes." At a certain point you have to choose the lesser of two evils. And that doesn't mean you're totally at peace with the decision; you simply accept it as reality.

    It also depends size/scope of what you offer...and your overall place in the market. Cuneiform is a niche label that can look at the pluses and minuses and make their decision based on those, knowledge of their customer base, etc. DGM also can look at its fan base and make a decision...also, while they don't stream they have created their own soft format shopfront that has done very well, even though they don't sell commercial releases in that format (at least, yet). I haven't spoken to them about it, but I can only assume that the demand for soft formats of their catalog - whether compressed Mastered for iTunes or full CD quality and/or high resolution editions at HDTracks - became such that ECM had to make the decision they did.

    It varies from artist to artist and label to label, but at the end of the day I really think it comes down to choosing the lesser of two evils: stream, and accept that you'll make less $$ but have broader reach; or don't stream and make more $$ crim what you do sell, but reach fewer people and also disappoint/anger at least some of your fambasd who wants to see you available Ina streaming format.

  8. #108
    I think this is absolutely key. Thanks for posting this (bolding is mine):

    Quote Originally Posted by martiprog View Post
    Money wasn't the object of the release, but it would be nice if we could get something back that enabled us to record a full album. However, the royalty from streaming is so poor that we will never see anything meaningful back from this. Even if a thousand people bought a download we would see something that gave us a chance, and a few hundred CD sales would be great. The reality, however, is that we will have to dig deep again. This will never amount to more than a hobby, and an expensive one at that. We do it because we love it, and want others to love it, but sadly, even many longterm prog fans don't seem to place as much "value" on "new" music anymore.

    Streaming - damned if we do, damned if we don't.
    Let me ask you a rather brutal but key question that also relates to this: how much better do you think you might be if you could devote yourself to making your music full-time, rather than it being a part-time "hobby," as you put it?

    Not suggesting your music is at all bad (I very much like what I've heard); but, practically speaking: do you not feel at all hobbled by the fact that you can only spend so much time each week on your music, or that you can only gig rarelly, rather than if you were able to devote yourself to your music full-on and play live more regularly? In other words, you are very good now; do you feel you could be significantly better if you were able to pursue your music as more than a hobby?

    Again, not to denigrate; clearly you've already accomplished a significant amount with music as a hobby. But I think people don't get that, by being forced to relegate your music to the status of "hobby," it also means you are not what you could be, were you able to pursue it as a full-time effort.

    All of this, however, mentioned with absolute respect for what you've accomplished already, and I hope you take my questions in the spirit with which they are intended.
    Cheers,
    John

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