Thread: NBA Basketball Thread

  1. #526
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    I think Magic Johnson had a good talk with with Papa Ball. For now, the kid is the MVP of the summer league. His future looks bright.

  2. #527
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    ^ I'm sick of both of them already. The dad reminds me of the "Belee dat!" guy from WWE, (don't recall the name,) and the hype around Lonzo is so great, you'd think he was one of the top 5 players in the league already.

  3. #528
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    Is anybody else sick to death of hearing about Lorenzo Ball and his blowhard father?
    The sad thing is that the kid, Lonzo, is pretty damn good. But he's already a villain in the league because of his father.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  4. #529
    Geriatric Anomaly progeezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    The sad thing is that the kid, Lonzo, is pretty damn good. But he's already a villain in the league because of his father.
    Somebody needs to tell Ball's father that being a stage mother(f****r) doesn't help his kid.
    "My choice early in life was either to be a piano player in a whorehouse or a politician, and to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference"

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  5. #530
    Member Lou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by progeezer View Post
    Somebody needs to tell Ball's father that being a stage mother(f****r) doesn't help his kid.
    And please!!!!!......punctuate your speech with head slaps when you do!!!
    A Comfort Zone is not a Life Sentence

  6. #531
    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    assuming Lebron is on the Cavs, I expect that they will be back in the finals.
    Going to have to revise this, as the Cavs don't appear to be headed into training camp with both Lebron and Irving.

    IMO, if the Cavs are smart, they find a way to get Lebron to LA this year as opposed to next and at least get something good in return.

  7. #532
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    LeBron just wished Ben Simmons a happy birthday last week, so Philly is going nuts with speculation. Cleveland should realize that LeBron isn't staying and should be finding out what every team in the league is willing to give up.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  8. #533
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    LeBron just wished Ben Simmons a happy birthday last week, so Philly is going nuts with speculation. Cleveland should realize that LeBron isn't staying and should be finding out what every team in the league is willing to give up.
    Lebron has a no-trade clause and he's apparently only interested in LA; the Lakers by a mile, and the Clippers a distant second.

  9. #534
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    Going to have to revise this, as the Cavs don't appear to be headed into training camp with both Lebron and Irving.

    IMO, if the Cavs are smart, they find a way to get Lebron to LA this year as opposed to next and at least get something good in return.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Cleveland should realize that LeBron isn't staying and should be finding out what every team in the league is willing to give up.
    Why are you guys so certain that LeBron is going to leave? I know it's possible because he's done it before, but if winning titles is his goal, it doesn't make sense. Then there's all the off court related declarations LeBron has made. Bear in mind that ESPN wants him out of Cleveland, so don't just automatically buy into the hype.

    And even without Kyrie, the Cavaliers still probably come out of the East. Never mind that they should get a nice return for him.

  10. #535
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Why are you guys so certain that LeBron is going to leave? I know it's possible because he's done it before, but if winning titles is his goal, it doesn't make sense.
    Winning titles is exactly why he would leave. He can't beat Golden State while in Cleveland.


    I've heard that he's interested in the Lakers, but that doesn't make sense. He can get to the finals every year if he stays in the East, but it's a tougher road in the West.
    Last edited by Scott Bails; 07-25-2017 at 10:17 AM.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  11. #536
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Why are you guys so certain that LeBron is going to leave? I know it's possible because he's done it before, but if winning titles is his goal, it doesn't make sense. Then there's all the off court related declarations LeBron has made. Bear in mind that ESPN wants him out of Cleveland, so don't just automatically buy into the hype.

    And even without Kyrie, the Cavaliers still probably come out of the East. Never mind that they should get a nice return for him.
    If the Cavs don't have Irving, I don't give them the same chance to come out of the East. Granted, his defense is atrocious, but what LJ needs at this stage of his career is someone else who can take over on offense from time to time. LJ is a great facilitator and therefore the Cavs were in a really good spot to carry a no-defense, score-first mentality point guard like Irving. Also, it should go without saying that Irving was a huge reason for Cleveland being competitive with GS. His particular set of virtues are a real thorn in the side for the Golden State defense, that won't likely be replicated by anybody who would get sent back to the Cavs in a trade.

    The Cavs won't get an elite scorer in return for Irving, and draft picks don't interest LJ at this point in his career. He was probably on his way out anyway, but a loss of Irving would likely seal the deal.

    As far as whether James leaves for another team - I'm just repeating what I'm reading nearly everywhere, not just ESPN.

  12. #537
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Winning titles is exactly why he would leave. He can't beat Golden State while in Cleveland.
    That's ridiculous. He stays and he has entre into the finals year after year. He only has to beat the Warriors 4 times. Where could he go in the West that would give him those odds? He'd be on a weaker team, have to grind through a gauntlet just to get to the Finals, and then have to face the Warriors with likely much less rest.

    I watched almost every Cavaliers game last year. They didn't play anywhere close to their best in the Finals. Imo, if they want to beat the Warriors, they have to change their style of play. Switch to an offense that pounds the ball inside to Love, and rely on him to make quick reads where he either goes to the hole or kicks it out. When they played a ball movement game instead of iso ball, they were as impressive as the Warriors. Unfortunately, they only played that way a handful of times. Moving Kyrie could change that.

  13. #538
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    That's ridiculous. He stays and he has entre into the finals year after year. He only has to beat the Warriors 4 times.
    Which he has absolutely no shot of doing with Cleveland.

    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Where could he go in the West that would give him those odds? He'd be on a weaker team, have to grind through a gauntlet just to get to the Finals, and then have to face the Warriors with likely much less rest.
    Agreed. Which is why he should stay in the East.

    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    I watched almost every Cavaliers game last year. They didn't play anywhere close to their best in the Finals. Imo, if they want to beat the Warriors, they have to change their style of play. Switch to an offense that pounds the ball inside to Love, and rely on him to make quick reads where he either goes to the hole or kicks it out. When they played a ball movement game instead of iso ball, they were as impressive as the Warriors. Unfortunately, they only played that way a handful of times. Moving Kyrie could change that.
    They can't beat Golden State in Cleveland.
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  14. #539
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    If the Cavs don't have Irving, I don't give them the same chance to come out of the East. Granted, his defense is atrocious, but what LJ needs at this stage of his career is someone else who can take over on offense from time to time. LJ is a great facilitator and therefore the Cavs were in a really good spot to carry a no-defense, score-first mentality point guard like Irving. Also, it should go without saying that Irving was a huge reason for Cleveland being competitive with GS. His particular set of virtues are a real thorn in the side for the Golden State defense, that won't likely be replicated by anybody who would get sent back to the Cavs in a trade.

    The Cavs won't get an elite scorer in return for Irving, and draft picks don't interest LJ at this point in his career. He was probably on his way out anyway, but a loss of Irving would likely seal the deal.

    As far as whether James leaves for another team - I'm just repeating what I'm reading nearly everywhere, not just ESPN.
    Kyrie handled the ball more than LeBron last year. Only by a small percentage, but...

    Normally, I would agree that draft picks alone would not be what Lebron is looking for, but what if they get Wiggins, the Wolves 1st rounder next year, and possibly a 2nd? I think Lebron is hurt and pissed, and what he's going to do will depend on what happens next year, not what people think right now in Summer 2017.

    And the sources saying Lebron is leaving...who are they? Lebron? Savannah? Maverick?..Didn't think so.
    Remember how it was a certainty that Love would leave after his Minnesota contract ran out? He signed a new deal in 5 days. I get that the national media consider it a done deal. Don't get hooked. Lebron loves drama, and he loves being the center of attention. He may leave. He may not.

  15. #540
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Which he has absolutely no shot of doing with Cleveland.

    Agreed. Which is why he should stay in the East.

    They can't beat Golden State in Cleveland.
    Sorry dude, but that's nonsense. You're assuming a highly motivated Warriors team, without nagging injuries, and that they'll be able to keep everyone contractually happy. That's a hell of an assumption.

    And I don't know where in the East Lebron goes that gives him a better chance than Cleveland, but I haven't seen it.

  16. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Lebron loves drama, and he loves being the center of attention.
    I certainly can agree with this. The sources indicating that he wants out are manifold, however. Based on what I'm reading, I'm of the opinion that he'll leave. That decision is not imminent, though, so there is still a chance that he could change his mind and stay.

  17. #542
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Sorry dude, but that's nonsense. You're assuming a highly motivated Warriors team, without nagging injuries, and that they'll be able to keep everyone contractually happy. That's a hell of an assumption.
    I'm assuming an infinitely more talented Warriors team - especially if Kyrie leaves. You may have a point out the motivation, but you can't predict injuries. LeBron could just as well slip in the shower and shred his ankle tendons, for all we know.

    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    And I don't know where in the East Lebron goes that gives him a better chance than Cleveland, but I haven't seen it.
    If the Sixers can get everyone on the floor (never a sure bet), keep an eye on them. They won't make much noise this year, but they have a ton of young talent.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  18. #543
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    I'm assuming an infinitely more talented Warriors team - especially if Kyrie leaves. You may have a point out the motivation, but you can't predict injuries. LeBron could just as well slip in the shower and shred his ankle tendons, for all we know.



    If the Sixers can get everyone on the floor (never a sure bet), keep an eye on them. They won't make much noise this year, but they have a ton of young talent.
    "Infinitely more talented" What are you watching? The national pundits that I heard address it (admittedly only around 3,) said after the series that if Durant doesn't sign with the Warriors, the Cavaliers win the series. I tend to agree. The main Warriors talent advantage is their bench, and that was exacerbated by Korver wetting his pants. He may be over that now.

    I wasn't predicting injuries. I was pointing out that your position depends on them not having injuries.

    I can assure you that LeBron has zero interest in playing with a bunch of kids. He wants guys who have arrived, not just have potential. Not to mention that Embiid, while very talented, has a terrible track record of being able to stay on the court. Having said that, if I was the Cavaliers GM, I would call the Sixers GM and offer him Kyrie for Ben Simmons and an unprotected 2018 first round draft pick.

    Sorry about the formatting, but I'm using the phone to post.

  19. #544
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    "Infinitely more talented" What are you watching? The national pundits that I heard address it (admittedly only around 3,) said after the series that if Durant doesn't sign with the Warriors, the Cavaliers win the series. I tend to agree.
    But....Durant did sign with the Warriors.


    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    I wasn't predicting injuries. I was pointing out that your position depends on them not having injuries.
    So, you're predicting non-injury?

    Injuries shouldn't even be a part of this kind of discussion, unless you're talking about a player like Embiid, who hasn't yet played a full season.

    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Having said that, if I was the Cavaliers GM, I would call the Sixers GM and offer him Kyrie for Ben Simmons and an unprotected 2018 first round draft pick.
    I've heard that type of deal, too. I wouldn't deal Simmons yet, but that's clouded because I'm dying to see him play with all of these guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Sorry about the formatting, but I'm using the phone to post.
    Your formatting was fine.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  20. #545
    Geriatric Anomaly progeezer's Avatar
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    IMO the Bucks are one player away (and it's not Jabari Parker) from being a #3 or #4 seed in the playoffs for a few years based on the players they already have locked up incl. Giannis.
    "My choice early in life was either to be a piano player in a whorehouse or a politician, and to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference"

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  21. #546
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    The Bucks have a good, young team. They're going to be fun to watch develop.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  22. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    "Infinitely more talented" What are you watching? The national pundits that I heard address it (admittedly only around 3,) said after the series that if Durant doesn't sign with the Warriors, the Cavaliers win the series. I tend to agree.
    I would not go that far. I think Golden State is still a better team than the Cavs without Durant (their record-setting regular season proved it). However, basketball is all about matchups, and the Cavs were a tough matchup for that iteration of Golden State. And Cleveland executed just well enough to eke out out a series win in 2016. Could they have done that again in 2017, had the rosters been the same with the Warriors minus Durant? Sure, I think so. I would not have the Cavs as favorites, but I do think that they would have had a very solid chance to win.

    The additional of Durant made the Warriors nearly unbeatable, though, because he plugged most of the holes that the Cavs could expose in their game. GS in 2015 and 2016 was winning in a very unconventional way. But, if you could stop it (or just catch them on a bad shooting night), they didn't really have answers. Durant, though, gave them the ability to run a more conventional offense around an elite conventional scorer. That's an embarrassment of riches that is almost unfair. It's one thing to have a team of stars, like Miami did, but a team that can play on an elite level in two different offensive styles makes it nearly impossible for anyone to beat GS in a 7 game series. Even if you can slow down one of the styles (as the Cavs did in 2016), GS will still beat you with the other style.

  23. #548
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    But....Durant did sign with the Warriors.
    Yeah, but one player who allows you to leap frog another team in talent level doesn't render you "Infinitely more talented" than them. Statements like that and the Cavaliers have "no shot" against Golden St make it sound like they don't belong on the same floor with them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    So, you're predicting non-injury

    Injuries shouldn't even be a part of this kind of discussion, unless you're talking about a player like Embiid, who hasn't yet played a full season.
    I'm not predicting anything. My comment was in context as a response to your "the Cavaliers can't beat the Warriors," and I was pointing out that there are variables that impact the accuracy of that statement that you weren't taking into consideration. Injuries are one of those variables. I'm not talking about who you bet on in Vegas before the season when they give odds on favorites. Of course you pick GS then. I'm talking about what actually happens as it plays out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    I've heard that type of deal, too. I wouldn't deal Simmons yet, but that's clouded because I'm dying to see him play with all of these guys.
    I think Simmons has the chance to be special. He combines several things I really like, though he may never be an elite shooter. Time will tell.
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  24. #549
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    I would not go that far. I think Golden State is still a better team than the Cavs without Durant (their record-setting regular season proved it). However, basketball is all about matchups, and the Cavs were a tough matchup for that iteration of Golden State. And Cleveland executed just well enough to eke out out a series win in 2016. Could they have done that again in 2017, had the rosters been the same with the Warriors minus Durant? Sure, I think so. I would not have the Cavs as favorites, but I do think that they would have had a very solid chance to win.
    I'm just going by the eye test. Durant was clearly the difference in the Finals, imo. As for regular season, the Cavaliers rarely had their full team on the floor, and many new parts didn't have a chance to fully blend with the old parts. Add to that that LeBron seemed to view the regular season as a grind, and the team's seeding irrelevant to making the Finals, and you have a stat that really isn't as important as it may seem at first.
    He did not know that the sword he'd hold, would turn his priceless empire into fool's gold...

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  25. #550
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    So Vic, has Lebatard's head exploded yet?

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