VDGG - World Record

[Kcrimso]

Mmmhhh!!!... very much hit & miss

Nadir is 50/50
Over is 50/50 (but the good 50 is awesome)

and the trilogy of Future Now, Ph7 and Black Box is somewhere between 50/50 to 60/40

YMMV though.

I think all of those are quite brilliant and much better than QZ/PD.

[Steve F.]

^ ^ ^

interesting to read here that QZ/PD isn't a particularly well-liked one in the cannon! I had no idea!

[mkeneally]

Was fortunate, I think, in that this was the first VDGG I ever heard. As a teenager I found it deep, mysterious, powerful, beautifully performed and recorded, and compelling all around, and I think removed from any comparisons from the rest of their catalogue ('cause why bother?) I still find it to be all of these things.

[Bucka001]

^ ^ ^

interesting to read here that QZ/PD isn't a particularly well-liked one in the cannon! I had no idea!

I think it's fantastic and was totally floored when I first heard it. It sounded really clued-in and hip for '77 and still hasn't aged. Charisma, who had been sort of ho-hum about the band (except for Strat, who loved them) were actually thrilled about the album and thought that this might be the one to broaden the fan base (we all know how that worked out). QZ got universally great reviews in the press, the first time that had happened since The Least seven years before. I disagree, strongly, with those who say it sounds more like a PH solo album. For myself, it absolutely sounds like a band album... a band album done by that version of the band, which is exactly what it was. Mucho input from G Smith and N Potter (who always thought he should maybe have received some writing credit for the arrangement side of things) which you wouldn't have gotten on a solo album.

The songs sound fresh and crisp with new life kicked into the band, necessitated by the lineup change and Hammill rising to the challenge, coming up with some shorter, killer songs. I still love this album and think it's a shining, rare example of where "prog" got it right in the late 70s.

[Kcrimso]

I like QZ/PD, it is just that it pales compared to previous VdGG albums and contemporary Hammill solo albums. And no, QZ/PD does not sound like Hammill solo album.

[blusterbox studio]

I really enjoy the remix edit of Meurglys III found on The Box. Hammill removed roughly 4 minutes of the song and for me this really brought the song into better focus. He also removed 'The Songwriters Guild' from the songs title on the packaging as well. I had always found the original version of this song a bit tedious, as I did with Moonchild on the first King Crimson recording ITCOTCK. Apparently both Hammill and Fripp saw the error of some youthful decisions but whereas Fripp will insert an edit in the original running song order on his reissues, Hammill left the original song length alone when remixing World Record.

[flytomars]

When She Comes is in the top 5 VdGG tunes ever
A Place To Survive rocks out and has some killer crunchy Hammond from Banton (Banks could never funk it up like that - brilliant). Great chorus as well
Masks is okay. Not one of the classice, but a good tune
M3 is fantastic and the guitar solo is hilarious
Wondering is my least fave and with the dated synths sounds very of its time, which is a criticism that VdGG mostly manages to escape.

I love this album but will agree that it's not up there with Godbluff or Still Life. It was meant to be a more jamming, stretching out disc at any rate, which is not what Godbluff and Still Life were about.

Exactly what I think of WR.

^ ^ ^

interesting to read here that QZ/PD isn't a particularly well-liked one in the cannon! I had no idea!

I love QZ/PD and also have it in my top 5, it is less "Prog" with capital P so I guess thats the reason for the lack of love in this forum.
However I am very surprised that Still Life is not as liked as I would expected... for me it is up there with Pawnhearts as albums which are pure perfection.

[Kcrimso]

However I am very surprised that Still Life is not as liked as I would expected... for me it is up there with Pawnhearts as albums which are pure perfection.

Still Life is my favourite one.

VdGG top 5:

1. Still Life
2. Godbluff
3. World Record
4. Pawnhearts
5. A Grounding In Numbers

[JJ88]

For my taste, everything from The Least We Can Do... through to and including Still Life is 5-star worthy, classic stuff. Hammill's solo albums in the 1972-4 hiatus are also about that level of quality.

[Progatron]

For my taste, everything from The Least We Can Do... through to and including Still Life is 5-star worthy, classic stuff. Hammill's solo albums in the 1972-4 hiatus are also about that level of quality.

If it wasn't for "My Room", I'd be in complete agreement here.

I'm occasionally surprised by VDGG fans who haven't heard the PH albums of the period. Silent Corner and In Camera in particular are absolutely essential IMO. My favourite is Over, but I understand why it's not everybody's.

[JeffCarney]

Great album.

I always assumed the electric guitar in "Meurglys III" was totally conceptual and really within the context of the Rikki Nadir idiom. So comments about it not being good guitar work are somewhat lost on me. It's sometimes horrible, but passion-drenched and within the framework of the proto-punk lyrical content.

IOW, it's not supposed to be "good."

[JJ88]

^I can't imagine many 'punks' having the patience to sit through a solo that lasts that long, however 'passion-drenched' it may (or may not!) be. That end jam is just too long and adds nothing IMHO. It's the screechy tone Hammill uses which sets my teeth on edge, as much as what he's playing.

If it wasn't for "My Room", I'd be in complete agreement here.

What's wrong with 'My Room'? I guess Hammill holds it in esteem as it was one of relatively few VDGG tracks he played in his own solo concerts.

[JeffCarney]

^I can't imagine many 'punks' having the patience to sit through a solo that lasts that long

The proto-punk factor is not meant to suggest that the song was ever intended to appeal to "punks."

The point is that it is a conceptual approach to electric guitar. It's art. It's absolutely in line with the lyrics which depict a depressed, lonely protagonist leaning on his guitar as his only true friend and pathway to songwriting.

Most composing guitarists, regardless of ability, play "poorly" in their private songwriting adventures. One can argue whether this was a "good idea" to include this sort of private look into an isolated man's songwriting process and obsession with his guitar as "friend." But to say it isn't good guitar playing completely misses the point, IMO.

[Jos]

So I am the first to say it: I love that guitar solo in Meurglyss III. PH is my favorite (no pun intended) BEST WORST guitar player.... Of course it wasn't meant to sound like a "good" solo. This solo is a work of art on it's own. I'd like him to do a Nadir's big chance 2.0 with only guitar, bass and drums (vox of course), the electric guitar in all it's always slightly out of tune (with PH that is) dirtyness: the distortion set just wrong, the sound ugly and irritating. Now that's how I like my Hammill.... An album with songs like "Ship of fools" is what I have in mind.

[Conti]

I like World Record very much, but always had much difficulty the sub-standard guitar playing in the solo of Meurglis III. That said, I'm a HUGE fan of Nadir and Vital for their raw sound and attitude.

[Mister Triscuits]

What's wrong with 'My Room'? I guess Hammill holds it in esteem as it was one of relatively few VDGG tracks he played in his own solo concerts.

A sublime tune, one of the most beautiful thing in the VdGG canon, sez me. I can't see what puts people off about it. The off-the-wall bit about the sea monster? The soprano sax? (Love it myself.)

[Progatron]

A sublime tune, one of the most beautiful thing in the VdGG canon, sez me. I can't see what puts people off about it. The off-the-wall bit about the sea monster? The soprano sax? (Love it myself.)

Just doesn't work for me. I know I'm in the minority there... different strokes.

[Jos]

A sublime tune, one of the most beautiful thing in the VdGG canon, sez me. I can't see what puts people off about it. The off-the-wall bit about the sea monster? The soprano sax? (Love it myself.)

That seamonster lyric to me always resonates deeply on a psychological level. Very poetic. But then again, I also love the Meurglyss guitar solo :-)

[PROGMONSTER]

I like this more than Still life. This and quiet zone are 2 of my faves behind Godbluff and H to He

[revporl]

No one has mentioned Masks yet? That's the outstanding track for me on this, every m m m masochistic m m m mumble of his act.... just wonderful. And ace that Lady Starlight used this for Lady Gaga's intro music on a tour a few years back.

[Kcrimso]

No one has mentioned Masks yet? That's the outstanding track for me on this, every m m m masochistic m m m mumble of his act.... just wonderful.

That is one brilliant moment!

[Chuck AzEee!]

When She Comes is in the top 5 VdGG tunes ever
A Place To Survive rocks out and has some killer crunchy Hammond from Banton (Banks could never funk it up like that - brilliant). Great chorus as well
Masks is okay. Not one of the classice, but a good tune
M3 is fantastic and the guitar solo is hilarious
Wondering is my least fave and with the dated synths sounds very of its time, which is a criticism that VdGG mostly manages to escape.

I love this album but will agree that it's not up there with Godbluff or Still Life. It was meant to be a more jamming, stretching out disc at any rate, which is not what Godbluff and Still Life were about.

Funny, I was thinking of this album all weekend but chose "Godbluff" for my album of the day. I actually heard "A Place To Survive" on radio one time. I love this album but for the jam part of "Mergulys". [emoji42] J, I have a question for you, has Martin L. Gore ever cite Peter Hamill as an influence?

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[Bucka001]

J, I have a question for you, has Martin L. Gore ever cite Peter Hamill as an influence?

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Not that I know of, but that doesn't mean he hasn't. While at one time I would have found it surprising that someone from Depeche Mode would be a Hammill fan, in recent years members of Duran Duran, Human League, The Cure, and other big 80s artists have gone on record as being huge PH/VdGG fans, so nothing seems out of the question (Lady Starlight, anyone?)

[olivetti]

I really enjoy the remix edit of Meurglys III found on The Box. Hammill removed roughly 4 minutes of the song and for me this really brought the song into better focus. He also removed 'The Songwriters Guild' from the songs title on the packaging as well. I had always found the original version of this song a bit tedious, as I did with Moonchild on the first King Crimson recording ITCOTCK. Apparently both Hammill and Fripp saw the error of some youthful decisions but whereas Fripp will insert an edit in the original running song order on his reissues, Hammill left the original song length alone when remixing World Record.

remix?
Sure you don't mean remaster?

[Chuck AzEee!]

Not that I know of, but that doesn't mean he hasn't. While at one time I would have found it surprising that someone from Depeche Mode would be a Hammill fan, in recent years members of Duran Duran, Human League, The Cure, and other big 80s artists have gone on record as being huge PH/VdGG fans, so nothing seems out of the question (Lady Starlight, anyone?)

Thanks J,

The reason I asked is that I had a girlfriend that was the head of the New York fan club back in the early 90's and she used to have a pass to see them backstage. I begged her to ask Martin Gore if he was a Genesis fan due to the track "Fly On A Windscreen", she did ask him and he directed her to Andy Fletcher and Alan Wilder whom both mentioned were big Prog fans, Alan she said mentioned Hugh Banton in the conversation and that was the only time Martin showed any interest in the conversation.