The best thing about Seconds Out is....

[-=RTFR666=-]

OF COURSE, his antics on stage (even if he claims to have begun his career with professional acting) were EXTREMELY annoying. For instance, his gestures during "Dance on a volcano" (Live at the lyceum, London) make him look so so stupid. In fact, all those silly routines didn't fit the serious nature of Genesis music in the first place.

The Steve Martin schtick w/the Hawaiian shirt was pretty much his "jumping the shark" moment at the shows I saw at Richfield Coliseum and Merriwether Post Pavilion on the Duke tour...then they introduced the TIOA medley for the Mama tour - always hated that.

[julioscissors]

Phil's singing is my favorite thing about the album. Does a great job with the Gabriel stuff; really freshens it up.

[Proglodite]

I've always had the impression that Collins was going through a major melt-down during the '80 tour around Sheffield/Lyceum shows. His vocals are very raw (esp the Dancing Moonlit Knight snippit)...his rambling intro to Say It's Alright Joe I think is taking method acting to the extreme. I'm not sure how much of this was a front Collins was putting on, or how much of it was actually real (I suspect the latter).

He could easily have pulled a John Belushi at this point (failed marriage, alcoholism, etc). The fact that he didn't - that he channeled these demons into a solo album and reinvented himself is very inspiring. It's a shame not many people acknowledge what an accomplishment this actually was, and instead Phil has had to hear how he ruined Genesis (and pop music) for the next forty-plus years.

[JJ88]

^'Say It's Alright Joe' was given the full Frank Sinatra saloon song treatment, yes.

...then they introduced the TIOA medley for the Mama tour - always hated that.

Me too. If you don't like that- and I really, really don't- some of the fanbase always, without fail, takes it upon themselves to say that you don't like the songs they are doing in that medley. It is possible to love the songs but hate this f****** medley.

[2steves]

...the live version of "Supper's Ready", particularly from "9/8" until the grand finale. Collin's vocals and Hackett's guitar on New Jerusalem transcend the original recording.

Very true---Peter is a greater artist than Phil but Phil is a better singer of certain Genesis songs than Peter---but Peter's voice did evolve---and became stronger. But Seconds Out is a sublime live recording---and it's too bad Phil felt he had to talk so much between songs like Peter did---because Peter's raps were weird and funny---Phils were stupid.

[interbellum]

The climax in Cinema Show, which is build up better than in the studio-version. And yes, this is with Bill Bruford.
Saw the band a few months earlier in Rotterdam. One of the best shows I ever visited, except for the silly act (the folk-trio Makker, Rakker en Stakker) that started the evening.

[ThomasKDye]

...it doesn't not contain any of Phil's ridiculous blathering before every song!!

I guess I'm a bit weird but I actually enjoy the "Romeo and Juliet" story before "Supper's Ready." It's raunchy but in a silly way, like an uninformed Monty Python sex farce skit, and I think Phil pulls it off pretty amusingly. I also can't help but imagine what the other band members were thinking when he was saying that every night, though. Maybe after years of Peter Gabriel's eldritch musings, they'd learned to tune out anything that isn't "them playing stuff."

It was only a matter of time before this forum got around to analyzing "Having Fun With Genesis On Stage."

[No Pride]

Very true---Peter is a greater artist than Phil but Phil is a better singer of certain Genesis songs than Peter---but Peter's voice did evolve---and became stronger.

I was going to mention that if nobody else did. I think Peter eventually caught up (and maybe even passed up) Phil as a dynamic vocalist, but at the time of this recording, I'd consider Phil to be the better of the two.

[JeffCarney]

Not that it should matter in terms of one's taste, but I find the notion that Phil Collins is somehow technically "better" than Gabriel as a singer to be flat out comical.

Collins can yell in key beautifully and sing very delicately with great precision. The extent of his vocal prowess from a technical standpoint pretty much ends there. Mind you, this isn't a criticism. He is superb in these respects and also brings his own flavor to the table in terms of intonation and so forth. He sings more smoothly with more stability than Gabriel. If one rates this as "better," well ... okay. I rate it as different.

To compare the degree of difficulty of what Collins does to Gabriel in terms of singing as an art form is simply not a comparison. I'd be surprised if even a handful of singers who ever graced the stage could pull off something like "Battle Of Epping Forest."

[pb2015]

I too have always preferred Phil's softer vocals and toned-down showmanship in this period. Indeed, Rutherford even made some stage announcements in these days!

If I recall right, on the Trick tour Rutherford introduced "White Mountain," Hackett introduced "Firth Of Fifth" and the rest of the talking was Collins. On the Wind tour I think all talking was Collins, but it's been a while since I've listened to a recording.

[ThomasKDye]

If I recall right, on the Trick tour Rutherford introduced "White Mountain," Hackett introduced "Firth Of Fifth" and the rest of the talking was Collins. On the Wind tour I think all talking was Collins, but it's been a while since I've listened to a recording.

On W&W, Hackett still introduced "Firth" but Rutherford introduced "Eleventh Earl of Mar," which was appropriate as he wrote the words.

[Progatron]

If I recall right, on the Trick tour Rutherford introduced "White Mountain," Hackett introduced "Firth Of Fifth" and the rest of the talking was Collins. On the Wind tour I think all talking was Collins, but it's been a while since I've listened to a recording.

Hackett introduced "Entangled" and Rutherford also introduced "Supper's Ready" while Phil hammed it up. Both of them were quite stiff, and it's not hard to see why they didn't stick with that for long following this tour.

[JJ88]

Hackett is quite amusing and a much more confident presence on stage these days, of course.

Has Banks ever said a word on stage?

[Progatron]

Has Banks ever said a word on stage?

Not that I've ever seen/heard! He was once left singing the chorus to "I Know What I Like" when Phil stopped singing and covered Mike's microphone as well!

[Scott Bails]

I always loved the TioA medleys.

God forbid a band have a little fun.

[JJ88]

^That's the other 'straw man' response- the old 'you don't have a sense of humour'/'you don't like fun' argument. Personally I thought it was cringeworthy and went on and on.

[Scott Bails]

^That's the other 'straw man' response- the old 'you don't have a sense of humour'/'you don't like fun' argument. Personally I thought it was cringeworthy and went on and on.

Not sure how it's a straw man. I thought it was fun - especially for an encore. You and others disagree. No big deal.

[trurl]

I liked the TioA medleys as well. I thought they were a blast. Most of the joke was that it all came out sounding kind of exactly the same... Karma Chameleon was hysterical.

[JJ88]

^Maybe that's part of the problem for me, as I really hate 'Karma Chameleon' (just thinking of that twee harmonica sets my teeth on edge)...though I'd forgotten they shoved that in there!

Some of Phil's pre-song antics are funny. There's a lot of really funny stuff on the Mama Tour VHS.

[trurl]

I hate it too. That's why the Genesis version is funny.

[GuitarGeek]

It was only a matter of time before this forum got around to analyzing "Having Fun With Genesis On Stage."

And I wonder how many people besides me knows that allusion.

I like some of Phil's between song bits. Sometimes they went on a bit long, but what can you do? I actually liked the versions of the Romeo And Juliet story he told on the Trick and ATTW3 tours, where it preceded The Cinema Show. There's also a great bit on the Pittsburgh 76 show where he says "Hello, Baltimore!", then realizes he's not in Baltimore, then says "Sorry, hello Pittsburgh, Baltimore was last night", then asks if there's any people from Baltimore in the audience.

Then I think it was the next night (or a couple nights later) in Cleveland, the show was broadcast on the radio, Phil says hello to "everyone listening at home, taping this", then makes a facetious remark about "Don't buy the record, just tape the radio show!".

The one that drove me crazy listening to was the story he tells on the Lyceum video from 1980, before they do the Duke suite. That thing just goes on forever and ever, with no real point to it.

As for his hand gestures, I always liked the stuff he does on the Genesis In Concert video, particularly during Carpet Crawl and As Sure As Eggs Is Eggs. Yeah, maybe it's amateurish compared to Peter, but I still think it looks good, enough so that when I saw The Musical Box do the Trick show, I did all of them too (as did Denis).

[GuitarGeek]

Some of Phil's pre-song antics are funny. There's a lot of really funny stuff on the Mama Tour VHS.

(someone in the audience yells out "Do In The bloody CAGE!!!"
Phil: We'll do In The Bloody Cage, in a just a bloody minute!

As for the Turn It On Again medleys, I dunno, I kinda liked the idea a little bit, but sometimes it went on a bit long, like a joke that was only kinda sorta funny in the first place that just got worn out.

Likewise, a lot of people say that those who don't like Illegal Alien are "taking it too seriously" or whatever. No, I don't think so. I just think it's a bad attempt at being humorous. I thought something like Anything She Does was much better in that vein. At least Anything She Does doesn't have a lame ass refrain.

[Fracktured]

Not that it should matter in terms of one's taste, but I find the notion that Phil Collins is somehow technically "better" than Gabriel as a singer to be flat out comical.

Collins can yell in key beautifully and sing very delicately with great precision. The extent of his vocal prowess from a technical standpoint pretty much ends there. Mind you, this isn't a criticism. He is superb in these respects and also brings his own flavor to the table in terms of intonation and so forth. He sings more smoothly with more stability than Gabriel. If one rates this as "better," well ... okay. I rate it as different.

To compare the degree of difficulty of what Collins does to Gabriel in terms of singing as an art form is simply not a comparison. I'd be surprised if even a handful of singers who ever graced the stage could pull off something like "Battle Of Epping Forest."

When people discuss rock vocalist, they don't often bring up technical abilities. Gabriel always challenged his vocal limitations. Epping forest is one of my favorite Genesis songs for numerous reasons and Gabriel's vocals is one of them. While I think Collins could sing the old Genesis music well, I liked Gabriel's delivery better. I too find Collins attempt at stand up comedy amateurish at best and even embarrassing. Just my opinion.

[Rick Robson]

Hackett is quite amusing and a much more confident presence on stage these days, of course.

Seconded! Hackett introduced new horizons to the music that the progressive artists were doing back then when he realized the 'end of journey' that was Genesis to him. What a gift to my ears was his much more eclectic solo career!

[Rick Robson]

Collins can yell in key beautifully and sing very delicately with great precision. The extent of his vocal prowess from a technical standpoint pretty much ends there. Mind you, this isn't a criticism. He is superb in these respects and also brings his own flavor to the table in terms of intonation and so forth. He sings more smoothly with more stability than Gabriel. If one rates this as "better," well ... okay. I rate it as different.

That's why three out of my four long time Genesis' fave tracks are Afterglow (that one off Seconds Out) and Deep In The Motherlode; the other two are Los Endos (the one off Seconds Out too, btw beautifully followed by that Dance On A Volcano coda ... bon soir!) and Down And Out. And as you said, they are very different artists, either back then in Genesis or talking about their solo career. Personally I enjoyed some of Phil's music, not the same I can say about Gabriel's though.

Phil ruined Genesis?? C'mon guys... that so much said 'popish' Genesis spirit was always present imo, just that it was kind of repressed at a degree during Gabriel's era