Where are the new Prog Festivals? A rant

[Brotonthecat]

NJ Proghouse Homecoming has been cancelled.
So called Proggers need to support live music and festivals like Progday that get eclectic music and Fans should pay less attention to the so called "bigger prog veteran" bands. This is what killed Nearfest, in that their general crowd would only support a big headliner. We need to support newer bands that are creative. Most of the bigger bands are on their last legs and there will be no one left to see soon. That's problem number one.
And what are we left with besides Progday, ROSFEST which really should be labeled "Diet Prog festival" as all the bands sound the same and it promotes a very narrow minded view of progressive rock. In fact this has been the problem all along as those type of fans for the most part in majority would never survive Progday. All the other prog festivals in the world were never as close minded as ROSFEST. When you go to Progday or NF, every band is different. But this is exactly what that audience want, they don't like jazz, fusion avant garde, world music or really anything that doesn't sound like Marillion. We are talking the majority here of course as always.

I never forgot an early Nearfest that I went to in that one of the vendors who had tons of good cds had the "Then" new Asia reunion comeback cd in a huge stack. I started laughing saying to myself like anyone here at NF would be interested in that shit. Well guess what, every time I returned to the table the ASIA pile got smaller and smaller and none of the other bands moved really at all.
I was amazed the year The ENID played that so many people said they never heard them before. It looks to me like the only Prog really popular( if you can say that) is the Yes axis and this kind of Prog POP that ROSFEST gets. These current PROG POP fans like Asia, Magic muffin,spock's beard, the Marillion pop version of band from 1995-present one,etc and know very little if any of the old legendary prog bands. When the FARFEST festival was announced,it had killer bands that were legendary in Prog. Canceled, not enough people. If I took a poll at ROSFEST how many would own CDS by Shylock or Pulsar? But they will spend thousands on Cruise to the Edge when you can see Yes anywhere.

And do these ROSFEST people have albums by Morglbl,Colosseum,Soft Machine,DREGS, or book these types of band, nope they would go running, no jazz rock in my music! Hell, in talking to many of them many did not know CAMEL that well if at all. In fact they year CAMEL played NF,some "EDIT" on the NEW Ears said the Flower Kings should headline over them!!

[wilcox660]

Really have our "self-righteous prog snob" knob turned up to 11. Berating people and the music they might enjoy is always a great way to find solutions.

[Brotonthecat]

Really have our "self-righteous prog snob" knob turned up to 11. Berating people and the music they might enjoy is always a great way to find solutions.

oh that's interesting John as when we used to talk you agreed on all this years ago.

[Brotonthecat]

There is no solution but this, Progday this weekend had a low attendance and all the festivals will be gone.

[wilcox660]

Well, we may have indeed talked, but I NEVER shit on the more popular prog acts, as I enjoy quite a few of them. I'm just hearing frustration. I agree with that frustration. What solutions are being offered?

[wilcox660]

I have faith that someone out there will find a way to put forward a new festival. All we can do is wait, unless someone has the money, patience, time & connections to make it happen.

[Brotonthecat]

All I said is that is what is popular, there is way to be popular and creative and noncommercial like PT. Re:the bands I mentioned, only Asia I said my opinion of them, the rest I just said were popular and poppy.
As far as solutions no one is going to take any more financial hits for this audience, everyone other than NF has lost too much money and I have talked to or heard them say this.

[Brotonthecat]

I would love to see a new festival and many have tried lately. But this is what the problem is -the current prog audience.

[Brotonthecat]

I think the Diet proggers are just as snobbish on other forms of music as You accuse me of. I heard what they said of bands like Present and others at NF etc or about anything that doesn't sound like Yes/Marillion.

[wilcox660]

I understand that view. However, look back to, say, 1995 & think about how impossible NEARFest would have seemed. Another factor: bands are touring once more. On the "popular" level, in the next few months Renaissance, Wishbone Ash, Steve Hackett, Martin Barre & Ian Anderson are all playing less than an hour from me. Go back a few decades & that would've been unlikely.

Seriously - I'd love to see more new prog acts get gigs. I love new music & new ideas. Hopefully, new solutions can be found.

[wilcox660]

I think the Diet proggers are just as snobbish on other forms of music as You accuse me of. I heard what they said of bands like Present and others at NF etc or about anything that doesn't sound like Yes/Marillion.

Agreed. By the way - we're ALL snobs when it comes down to it. I apologize if that bothered you.

[Brotonthecat]

NF didn't seem impossible in 95 unless you mean as a financial success as Greg Walker did many CA prog festivals before them and Progday was already running also. But I guess those did not generate enough fans in CA back then even though the lineups were excellent.
I think all the bands you mentioned especially Tull could have and did tour back then except for Renaissance as they were defunct.

[Brotonthecat]

The rant was inspired by this weekend at Progday. All the bands were creative, diverse and genre defying. I looked around and wondered where everyone was? Probably an upcoming cruise ship or another nameless festival in future. There were no pop prog bands which was probably their downfall.

[SteveSly]

And what are we left with besides Progday, ROSFEST which really should be labeled "Diet Prog festival" as all the bands sound the same and it promotes a very narrow minded view of progressive rock. In fact this has been the problem all along as those type of fans for the most part in majority would never survive Progday. All the other prog festivals in the world were never as close minded as ROSFEST.

If I took a poll at ROSFEST how many would own CDS by Shylock or Pulsar? But they will spend thousands on Cruise to the Edge when you can see Yes anywhere.

And do these ROSFEST people have albums by Morglbl,Colosseum,Soft Machine,DREGS, or book these types of band, nope they would go running, no jazz rock in my music!!!

Mmmm…….I don’t know who you are since you don’t use your real name on this forum (maybe I know you?), but I think you are going a little heavy on the stereotyping here. I have attended several ROSfests and I own albums by just about everyone you mention as do many other people I know. ProgDay and NEARfest have always had eclectic lineups and yes ROSfests is more focused, but the bottom line is the people putting up the money, time, and effort to put these festivals on are perfectly within their rights to book anyone they want.

Yes, it would be great if more prog fans supported live events, and yes some forms are probably more popular than others, and yes I am in total agreement that young innovative bands should be supported, but I think there are many prog fans that do not fit your stereotype, and are open to a fairly wide array of music.

I was unable to attend ProgDay this year, but from the pictures and videos I saw it looked to be about a normal size crowd. As for starting a new festival. Just about every prog festival in the US past and present was started by a fan(s) and not professional bookers. Anyone can do it......just be prepared for a lot of hard work, stress and the possibility of loosing money.

[progman1975]

Don't forget Vicky from Esoteric is trying to get a festival going next spring-ish. I feel confident she can pull it off

[Jeremy Bender]

Berating people and the music they might enjoy is always a great way to find solutions.

^^ This.

I went to the first Progfest at UCLA in 1993. It was supposed to be two days, but IIRC poor ticket sales meant it ended up being a single day. I went for --wait for it-- IQ but was blown away by Änglagård. The rest was "meh", but it seemed like a good start. From what I can tell with a bit of quick Googling, that concept lasted from 1994-97 at the Variety Arts Theatre in Downtown, I think I went to one more, in 1997 for Le Orme and the Flower Kings.

Los Angeles is one of the places where prog was a big deal in the 70's, that never went away because of all the musicians here, but it points out something I've felt for years. ELP, Jethro Tull, Yes and later on a bit Genesis were arena level attractions in the US, but the rest? Not so much, Gentle Giant was notorious for clearing out places. It kind of gives the illusion that the style was far more popular than it really was overall and by the 1990's prog rock was so uncool and out of the mainstream that selling out 1,100 seat theaters in downtown Los Angeles was about what they could expect with multi-band bills.

There's been a shift towards giving prog its due in the music press, but the days of a band like Yes selling out a football stadium in Philadelphia while doing stuff like The Gates of Delirium and Ritual are gone forever and they're never coming back.

[Mythos]

miss LA prog...

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

Broton, you may be on to something...

the festivals need to branch out and cover the whole spectrum of Prog styles so that open minded people who are only familiar with one style might get turned on to other styles of Prog so we can grow the fan base

[bob_32_116]

"Prog festival".

To my knowledge there has never been such a thing in this country. Just mentioning.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

well Bob, don't feel too bad... they are all a 4 hour plane flight from where I live (except for the intermittent Baja Prog fest) and I cant justify a $400 plane ticket, ground transport and hotel expense for a concert

[Onomatopoeic]

Get with the times. man.

Prog festivals now occur on yer smartphone.

[gryphs also]

As one of the regular Rosfest attendees, I agree that I have a narrow-minded scope of music. So far this year my limited scope of music has included:

1 prog festival
2 folk festivals
1 blues festival
2 bluegrass concerts
1 singer-songwriter concert
1 psychedelic folk concert
1 southern gospel concert
2 punk concerts
1 80s New Wave concert
1 jazz-fusion concert
1 metal concert
1 avant-garde jazz concert

At the end of this month I will be attending the local jazz festival.

But because of Brontonthecat's comments, I have decided I need to branch out my musical appreciation and try for some variety.

[LEG-art]

IMHO a proper prog festival should have (each day), a known prog act (to bring in the crowds), then, diversify, to get others into lesser known bands or more diverse/experimental groups. Thereby you create a future fan-base when the older bands decide to retire. Also, a lot of venues/people don't advertise new bands very well. Many see a new prog ban name and avoid, because they're unknown. If they were explained well, posting reviews of their shows, bios, influences, and media... you might get more listeners to follow them. Creating a 'brand' is essential. Just my 2-cents.

[Jon]

IMO an excellent prog festival needs a) to be scheduled at a time when people will have a relatively easy time getting away from jobs, b) an audience that is open to new musical experiences, and c) organizers who can be trusted to assemble a group of worthy acts, many (or all) of which may be unknown to many (or most) of the ticket buyers. ProgDay satisfies all of these criteria and, therefore, is the model that new festivals might want to adopt.

[Prog Lives]

IMHO a proper prog festival should have (each day), a known prog act (to bring in the crowds), then, diversify, to get others into lesser known bands or more diverse/experimental groups. Thereby you create a future fan-base when the older bands decide to retire. Also, a lot of venues/people don't advertise new bands very well. Many see a new prog ban name and avoid, because they're unknown. If they were explained well, posting reviews of their shows, bios, influences, and media... you might get more listeners to follow them. Creating a 'brand' is essential. Just my 2-cents.

This, the genius of the NEARfest recipe

2 "big" names, RIO, NEO, 1-2 Symph, prog metal, and breakout newcomer - or so