A few months back I grabbed the Three at the Paradise '88 show from dimeadozen. I haven't burned it to disc or heard it yet. It's just seen commercial release. Do I delete the torrent without listening?
I just bought the double vinyl edition of Yes at Mesa. Unlike the very cool Inside Out vinyl sets which include the CD, or vinyl releases that give you a download code, this has neither. Am I within my rights to seek a torrent?
You paid for the music. You are within your legal rights to a digital version of this music for your own, personal use. I'm not sure you are 'entitled' to a illegal torrent, but you are entitled to legally own a digital version at no charge, and you can certainly legally digitize the vinyl if you have a USB turntable.Originally Posted by rickawakeman
Ethically, even if you go to an illegal torrent, you are getting something you have already paid for and I think the legalistic gods would say 'ok'.
Steve F.
www.waysidemusic.com
www.cuneiformrecords.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin
Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]
"Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"
please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.
The legalistic gods may say that but actual lawyers who could prosecute and fine you would say "no"
I know a computer guy in his 60s who is livid about those "stealing" software or music. He is of course clueless because it isn't stealing but copywrite infringement. Yet he has no qualms about "borrowing" software for a month to see if he likes it and then buying if he does and deleting it if he doesn't. So he's created his own ethical structure that clearly violates the law.
Having said that, I'm like him with music and have done the same thing. I'm no better than he is but I realize I was breaking the law despite many or most say not unethical. Actually, this is just when younger. Now I buy all music since can usually first listen on youtube.
I went back to this thread b/c I realized that I was probably wrong. In several ways.
The OP was asking ethically. Ethically, he's paid for this music for his personal use aready and ethically and legally, he should not have to pay for it again and he is legally entitled to digitize the format he already owns.
But my legal advice regarding an illegal torrent was poor.
Steve F.
www.waysidemusic.com
www.cuneiformrecords.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin
Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]
"Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"
please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.
Sorry, I completely forgot to agree with what you wrote that I put in bold.
As much as torrents can make downloading something much more efficient I see enough "XYZ media" Vs John Does 1-1000 cases in federal court to avoid using them.
It is too easy to have your ip address swept up in a fishing expedition in search of settlement fees.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-- Aristotle
Nostalgia, you know, ain't what it used to be. Furthermore, they tells me, it never was.
“A Man Who Does Not Read Has No Appreciable Advantage Over the Man Who Cannot Read” - Mark Twain
People are discussing "torrent" as though swapping files via torrent were illegal. Torrent use is not illegal per se; it depends on what is swapped.
I thought that Dime never carries anything that has an official release? How are torrents illegal?
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
You should delete it if it's available from an legitimate source.
I just bought the double vinyl edition of Yes at Mesa. Unlike the very cool Inside Out vinyl sets which include the CD, or vinyl releases that give you a download code, this has neither. Am I within my rights to seek a torrent?
The only legal way to download a digital file version of "Yes at Mesa" is from an authorized source. Just because you can get "Yes at Mesa" from somewhere else doesn't make it legal. I'm sure the owners of "Yes at Mesa" want to control the album's distribution -- even if the cost of the album is free.
The Three show was posted on dime before an official release was anticipated I would imagine. That would be a "legal" torrent. Someone posting Yes at Mesa or any other commercial release on a torrent site that accepts such things...that's illegal.
I don't think so, Steve:
The way I understand it is that you can make a digital copy of the actual product that you paid for (even if its a digital duplication of another digital format).........The digital copy obtained from the torrent is somebody else's digital copy of the source material......I know it sounds like semantics but, legally, it isn't..............
Last edited by klothos; 09-05-2015 at 11:05 AM.
This is exactly correct - I already acknowledged I was wrong earlier.
Steve F.
www.waysidemusic.com
www.cuneiformrecords.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin
Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]
"Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"
please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.
Under international copyright law, a work is protected as soon as "the pen leaves the paper," i.e., at the moment of creation, without any actual publication or filing of copyright papers. While it also protects corporate interests in some cases, this is primarily for the protection of the artist.
The application of this to a live performance is simple. The performer(s) own(s) the right to reproduce the concert, unless they have signed it away, in which case it belongs to whoever-they-signed-it-away-to. It is not a public right, and reproducing it (which a torrent definitely does) is an infringement of this right.
Cobra handling and cocaine use are a bad mix.
Either you do or you don't...
Both torrents are equally illegal in the eyes of the law. The former, a recording that has not been officially released, might be considered more ethical and some bands have, tacitly or explicitly, made it known that they are not bothered by the (non-profit) sharing of such recordings (although other bands have been clear that they're not OK with that -- and I don't know 3's position).
For me, if you've bought the 3 recording, I can't see much of an ethical issue with keeping the illegal torrented version (although torrenting that file to others is a definite no-no).
With the Yes recording, if you're mad enough to buy something on an inferior format like vinyl, that's your problem! ;-)
Henry
Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
Blogdegezou, the accompanying blog: http://bondegezou.blogspot.com/
I agree. But, in all seriousness, if you wanted an .mp3 copy, buying a "vinyl-only" version is a rather ill-informed way to go.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
Have to admit, I had some friends over this past weekend and we listened to Yes Fragile and Close to the Edge. Nothing sounded better than the original vinyl pressings from the 70s. YMMV, of course.
"Always ready with the ray of sunshine"
I went for the vinyl (instead of the CD/DVD Yes Mesa set) as I no longer feel the need to no need to actually WATCH this aging iteration, which I've seen twice live, in HD glory. The vinyl sounds damn good btw.
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