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Thread: Again on Steven Wilson's remixes

  1. #76
    Member Dok's Avatar
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    Just perusing this thread for the first time... Hoffman's CttE is the definitive digital remastering IMO. Wilson's didn't have the same feel, something intangible missing, that I was use to but that's to be expected. Really you can say that about all of them but I do enjoy his remixes. Waiting on Fragile and will be pre-ordering Octopus as soon as it comes available.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dok View Post
    Just perusing this thread for the first time... Hoffman's CttE is the definitive digital remastering IMO. Wilson's didn't have the same feel, something intangible missing, that I was use to but that's to be expected. Really you can say that about all of them but I do enjoy his remixes. Waiting on Fragile and will be pre-ordering Octopus as soon as it comes available.
    That is the one version of Close To The Edge I have never heard yet. I had no idea it rated so high.

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Rand Kelly View Post
    That is the one version of Close To The Edge I have never heard yet. I had no idea it rated so high.
    Opinion varies on these things. Different people like different approaches to re-mastering/mixing. I wouldn't take any single person's opinion as showing something is rated highly in general.

    Henry
    Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
    Blogdegezou, the accompanying blog: http://bondegezou.blogspot.com/

  4. #79
    I'm perfectly happy with the original first run Atlantic CDs and the Gastwirt remasters. I know I'm in the minority here.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    Opinion varies on these things. Different people like different approaches to re-mastering/mixing. I wouldn't take any single person's opinion as showing something is rated highly in general.

    Henry
    So true Henry. One day I would like to hear the Hoffman.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by the winter tree View Post
    I'm perfectly happy with the original first run Atlantic CDs and the Gastwirt remasters. I know I'm in the minority here.
    No you aren't. I too think the original Barry Diament pressing is the best I have ever heard. Lots of headroom for cranking.

  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Rand Kelly View Post
    No you aren't. I too think the original Barry Diament pressing is the best I have ever heard. Lots of headroom for cranking.
    Yeah, I'm with you guys. It's not that I'm not curious about the Wilson remixes, I just don't feel like I need to buy those Yes albums yet again. I'm happy with the Gastwirt ones (and a couple of original pressings that I still have). I hardly listen to Yes anymore at all anyway, so I'm not really sure what the benefit would be for me. I am missing a few Jethro Tull albums on CD though (well, everything really......I only own Thick As A Brick), so I might pick up those.

  8. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Frankk View Post
    I know there have been many discussions on Steven Wilson's remixes many times before, but now I want to adress a specific matter. I see the point of remastering & remixing albums that originally were badly produced or mixed -for instance, Trespass or Born Again-, but I don't understand WHY ON EARTH one would remix albums that sounded perfect in the first place??? For instance: Thick as a brick, In the land of grey and pink or Fragile. I admit that in most cases I am eagerly waiting those re-releases of classic prog albums, but in most cases it's not because of the remix, it's just because of the bonus material (unreleased songs, alternate versions, video content, etc.). And I'm getting tired as I have the impression that these remixes (by Wilson or Jakko) keep coming and coming with no justification at all. In conclusion, I'm sorry, maybe SW does his best, but I've come to the sad conclusion that this is not about the music anymore, it's just about trying to make more money out of classic prog bands.
    Agreed. I see no point to 2.0 remixes of excellent mixes unless they can redress obvious problems (like tape noise/geneartional degradation, or tape speed issues). Exact replication of an original mix to merely eliminate tape noise/generational degradation -- i.e. preserving the original purely aesthetic vision -- seems to be difficult for complex prog mixes.

    In no case, so far, IMO, has Steve Wilson improved (in *aesthetic* terms) on Eddie Offord's original 2ch Yes or ELP mixes.

  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by infandous View Post
    Yeah, I'm with you guys. It's not that I'm not curious about the Wilson remixes, I just don't feel like I need to buy those Yes albums yet again. I'm happy with the Gastwirt ones (and a couple of original pressings that I still have). I hardly listen to Yes anymore at all anyway, so I'm not really sure what the benefit would be for me. I am missing a few Jethro Tull albums on CD though (well, everything really......I only own Thick As A Brick), so I might pick up those.
    Fuck Barry Diament . Seriously. The guy is a Luddite as far as digital technology goes, and he is laughably clueless about it, *and* he rails cluelessly about it online. So fuck him.

  10. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Dok View Post
    Just perusing this thread for the first time... Hoffman's CttE is the definitive digital remastering IMO. Wilson's didn't have the same feel, something intangible missing, that I was use to but that's to be expected. Really you can say that about all of them but I do enjoy his remixes. Waiting on Fragile and will be pre-ordering Octopus as soon as it comes available.

    Arguably the *definitive* mastering is the BluRay flat transfer of Eddie Offord's 2 channel master tape, assuming EO didn't leave instructions for further mastering moves.

  11. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Rand Kelly View Post
    Steven Wilson Remixes
    Yesterday at 1:00am ·
    Gentle Giant - Band’s iconic fourth album OCTOPUS will be reissued on 30th October in BLU-RAY/CD and standalone CD formats, including my stereo and 5.1 surround sound remixes of several of the tracks (unfortunately not all of the multi track tapes could be located) and a 15-minute live performance of "Excerpts from Octopus" from the band's 1976 tour.
    Instrumental mixes and a flat transfer of the original 1972 mix will also be included, all in 96/24 LPCM. More info soon.
    link please?

  12. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    In no case, so far, IMO, has Steve Wilson improved (in *aesthetic* terms) on Eddie Offord's original 2ch Yes or ELP mixes.
    I think he did on Relayer, at least in some respects. I can't say I like his mix more than the original, but I like it as much. Other than that... no.

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by trurl View Post
    I think he did on Relayer, at least in some respects. I can't say I like his mix more than the original, but I like it as much. Other than that... no.

    Nope. Not even as much. Not for me. SW's mix is lacking from almost the first bar. Certainly lacking some elements EO's had. He admits it. Pretty sure EO's will remain the go-to mix for me.

    For me, so far, SW's talents for Yes mixes are best expressed in 5.1. Though even there I wonder what Offord might have done.

    Btw, please include Steve Hoffman in the 'digital Luddites' rant I posted. SH is another ideological idiot when it comes to digital tech.

  14. #89
    Yes, it's lacking in some areas but it makes up in others, so it's a wash. I like the presence the keyboards get in many passages on SW's. I like some of the separation. But I wouldn't say it's better than Eddie's it's just... different. Though the eq is certainly better.

  15. #90
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    I haven't heard it but I understand there were things missing from Wilson's Relayer remix that were on the original, specifically the 'battle noises'. With that in mind I can't understand how his could ever be considered the definitive one.

    It's like Pet Sounds...the stereo remix has some vocals missing on a few tracks. Nick Davis' Genesis remixes (now the 'default' ones, ugh) are full of such things.

  16. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    Nope. Not even as much. Not for me. SW's mix is lacking from almost the first bar. Certainly lacking some elements EO's had. He admits it. Pretty sure EO's will remain the go-to mix for me.

    For me, so far, SW's talents for Yes mixes are best expressed in 5.1. Though even there I wonder what Offord might have done.

    Btw, please include Steve Hoffman in the 'digital Luddites' rant I posted. SH is another ideological idiot when it comes to digital tech.
    Who the f are you and what are you flying off the handle about? Are you a mastering engineer?

    Both Diament and Hoffman are very well respected in the industry.

  17. #92
    chalkpie
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    Quote Originally Posted by marblesmike View Post
    Who the f are you and what are you flying off the handle about? Are you a mastering engineer?

    Both Diament and Hoffman are very well respected in the industry.
    Who gives a shit if this guy is an engineer or not - calling those guys idiots and telling them to f-off is 1st grade behavior - he clearly has some issues.

    Where are your award-winning digital recordings, tough guy?

  18. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    I haven't heard it but I understand there were things missing from Wilson's Relayer remix that were on the original, specifically the 'battle noises'. With that in mind I can't understand how his could ever be considered the definitive one.
    Very few. The diference is barely noticeable, and actually somewhat welcome. Most of the fx are still there.

  19. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    Who gives a shit if this guy is an engineer or not - calling those guys idiots and telling them to f-off is 1st grade behavior - he clearly has some issues.

    Where are your award-winning digital recordings, tough guy?
    Not sure if you're referring to me, but I don't have any digital recordings! I was commenting on his blanket statements about two very well-regarded mastering engineers in the business.

  20. #95
    chalkpie
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    Quote Originally Posted by marblesmike View Post
    Not sure if you're referring to me, but I don't have any digital recordings! I was commenting on his blanket statements about two very well-regarded mastering engineers in the business.
    sorry not you man! That was for the "angry" guy

  21. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by marblesmike View Post
    Who the f are you and what are you flying off the handle about? Are you a mastering engineer?

    Both Diament and Hoffman are very well respected in the industry.
    A person can be good at their job and also still have questionable beliefs about matters related to the field. I don't know enough about Hoffman to say whether or not I agree with the statement that he is an "ideological idiot," but I have read his board on occasion and I have witnessed him vociferously support some sound-tech opinions of questionable validity.

    That said, I have several of his remasters and I think most of them sound very good and are improvements over what had previously been available.

  22. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    A person can be good at their job and also still have questionable beliefs about matters related to the field. I don't know enough about Hoffman to say whether or not I agree with the statement that he is an "ideological idiot," but I have read his board on occasion and I have witnessed him vociferously support some sound-tech opinions of questionable validity.

    That said, I have several of his remasters and I think most of them sound very good and are improvements over what had previously been available.
    Your method of criticizing him vs the other guy's is far more adult. You're not calling him an idiot.

    It's all about the way people say things here.

  23. #98
    From what I know of Hoffman (which isn't much really so take this with a grain of salt) he does take a narrow view of things and may subscribe to some audio woo ideas. I personally have a lot of respect for Bob Katz because he knows good sound and wants things to sound fat and analog but lives in the digital world and can embrace many technologies and approaches.

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