Rank Your Top Five All-Time Favorite RIO Albums (excluding Zappa)

[ProgUK]

I'm new to the sub genre, so eager to learn what to explore.
Cheers!

david

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

RIO was a musical movement of 8 bands total David. There is already a thread of "Top 5 Avant Prog artists"

These are the *only* RIO bands:

(the initial 5)
Henry Cow (England)
Stormy Six (Italy)
Samla Mammas Manna (Sweden)
Univers Zero (Belgium)
Etron Fou Leloublan (France)

(the 3 added later)
Art Zoyd (France)
Art Bears (England, made up of former Henry Cow members)
Aksak Maboul (Belgium)

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

so then, my top 5 out of those 8 are
Univers Zero
Henry Cow
Samla Mammas Manna
Art Bears
Art Zoyd

[ProgUK]

Ahh ok, seemed that there was not much difference between RIO and avant prog then, as a sub genre?

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

the 8 RIO bands are clearly Avant and are often discussed under that broader moniker

http://www.progressiveears.org/forum...ant-Prog-Bands

[Scrotum Scissor]

Ahh ok, seemed that there was not much difference between RIO and avant prog then, as a sub genre?

Remember that RIO never identified or self-defined as any "subgenre". It was a commonship of theoretical approaches to certain ethics of "rock creativity" - some of it harshly contradicting the stylistic characteristics, modes and motives of 'ordinary' progressive rock tendencies. Originality, individuality, authenticity, transcendence and eclecticism - these were the main virtues.

The 5+3 original RIO faves:

Henry Cow - Western Culture
Stormy Six - Macchina Maccheronica
Univers Zero - Ceux du Dehors
Zamla Mammaz Manna - Familjesprickor (Family Cracks)
Etron Fou Leloublan - Les Poumons Gonfles
Art Zoyd - Symphonie Pour le Jour ou Bruleront les Cites
Aqsak Maboul - ...Bandits
Art Bears - Winter Songs

Runners-up to the original RIO movement were Albert Marcoeur (who even featured on a couple of bills with the other RIO groups), The Muffins, Picchio dal Pozzo, Conventum, Dün and Debile Menthol - and these would be my next choice.

From there, "avant-prog" gets all the more varied, disparate and exploratory. It's a VAST universe.

[ProgUK]

Thanks SS, i started a new, more specific, thread to pray upon yours, and others Avant expert leanings!

[Zeuhlmate]

Those mentioned are all great

And in the US there were/are
5'uus
Thinking Plague

[bondegezou]

Ahh ok, seemed that there was not much difference between RIO and avant prog then, as a sub genre?

It's a very common confusion. While RIO has a specific historical meaning, as described in this thread, the reality is that "RIO" is used as a short hand for many avant-prog acts which are similar in sound to those original RIO bands (or, actually, often just to avant-prog bands similar to Henry Cow and its various off-shoots), just as Canterbury gets used for bands that sound like or are connected to the actual acts that came out of Canterbury.

Henry

[NogbadTheBad]

The toothpaste is out of the tube on the RIO definition, yes technically it only applies to the originals but it has long since come to mean a broader range of bands. The RIO Festival in France uses the name with Chris Cutler's blessing and has a very diverse range of bands.

Sticking to the original definition as there are other avant threads going on & this is a bit of fun

Henry Cow - Western Culture
Stormy Six - L' Apprendista
Univers Zero - Ceux du Dehors
Zamla Mammaz Manna - Familjesprickor (Family Cracks)
Etron Fou Leloublan - Les Poumons Gonfles
Art Zoyd - Phase IV
Aqsak Maboul - ...Bandits
Art Bears - Winter Songs

[zombywoof]

Ahh ok, seemed that there was not much difference between RIO and avant prog then, as a sub genre?

I blame ProgArchives for this! They lumped RIO / Avant into one category, which I guess sort of makes sense, but I don't consider the tags interchangeable. All RIO bands are probably avant, but not all avant is RIO. Got me? For instance, Zappa and Beefheart have nothing to do with RIO (except being two influential figures on the movement), much like Cardiacs have nothing to do with the movement, but were influenced by it.

I highly recommend checking out Jose Zegarra Holder and Adele Schmidt's film, Romantic Warriors II - A Progressive Music Saga About Rock in Opposition to learn more.

http://www.progdocs.com/Progdocs.com/RW_Vol._2.html

[Scrotum Scissor]

For instance, Zappa and Beefheart have nothing to do with RIO (except being two influential figures on the movement), much like Cardiacs have nothing to do with the movement, but were influenced by it.

Add most artists on the Ralph label, for instance - Tuxedomoon, Residents, Snakefinger (who actually even referred to his own music as 'progressive'). And much so-called "post-rock" is most definitely avant-garde in one way or another - yet have little next to nothing to do with any RIO.

[zombywoof]

Add most artists on the Ralph label, for instance - Tuxedomoon, Residents, Snakefinger (who actually even referred to his own music as 'progressive'). And much so-called "post-rock" is most definitely avant-garde in one way or another - yet have little next to nothing to do with any RIO.

And the so-called 'Krautrock' movement - CAN, Faust, Amon Duul II, etc were very avant garde.

[Phlakaton]

Henry Cow - Legend
Univers Zero - Heresie
Thinking Plague - In This Life
5UUs - Crisis In Clay
U Totem - S/T

[bondegezou]

I blame ProgArchives for this! They lumped RIO / Avant into one category

The conflation was there long before ProgArchives. We were having these conversations on alt.music.progressive 20 years ago.

Henry

[Dave (in MA)]

I apologize in advance, but every time I see a thread about RIO...

[Scrotum Scissor]

^

Peter Allen was in fact invited into the early fold of the RIO movement but had to back out due to overall commitments. His extreme intricacies and refined meta-sophistication is radically subtle and mostly display as part of the maraccas-swing.

[chalkpie]

I'm new to the sub genre, so eager to learn what to explore.
Cheers!

david

would you consider Cardiacs and Canterbury in this? If so, that changes things me thinks.

[bondegezou]

would you consider Cardiacs and Canterbury in this? If so, that changes things me thinks.

I'm down with genres being mutable things, but how the f*** can one define Cardiacs or the vast bulk of Canterbury as "RIO" or even "avant-prog"?

Henry

[NogbadTheBad]

Cardiacs are put in Avant for the same reason I think Zappa is. People think they are prog but can't find a sub genre that fits them so they get put in Avant as they are edgy with lots of different time signatures and can be described as "difficult". In reality they are classic examples of a genre unto themselves, Cardiacs are Cardiacs, Zappa is Zappa, Magma were the only Zeuhl band until people started using the template. I have both Zappa & Cardiacs categorized as Avant but its just as a convenient label rather than any strict definition of the musical content. Canterbury is a separate animal all together, while there are bands at the edges of both, Henry Cow - Leg End being the most obvious example, I can't think of any Canterbury bands I would ever put into Avant. I guess that as Henry Cow are an original RIO band and Leg End has some Canterbury feel that's where the conversation goes.

[zombywoof]

Well, Zappa, like Magma, launched generations of imitators, but the problem with Zappa is his diversity. Yes, you could put Zappa in avant, but you could also put him in jazz, electronic, rock, comedy, classical, and so on. So, when a band is influenced by Zappa - uhh, which Zappa? Magma sort of did one thing, but man it was their thing. Same for Cardiacs, but as far as I know, Cardiacs had no imitators.

[100423]

^

Peter Allen was in fact invited into the early fold of the RIO movement but had to back out due to overall commitments. His extreme intricacies and refined meta-sophistication is radically subtle and mostly display as part of the maraccas-swing.

[chalkpie]

I'm down with genres being mutable things, but how the f*** can one define Cardiacs or the vast bulk of Canterbury as "RIO" or even "avant-prog"?

Henry

Its just a suggestion, and I personally have no problem lumping this music together (roughly speaking) if need be. Bottom line is that its just plain amazing music - regardless of our feeble attempts to label everything - and to me most folks would dig this stuff just the same.

[Trane]

Henry Cow (England) - Leg End
Stormy Six (Italy) - Apprendista
Samla Mammas Manna (Sweden) - Maltid
Univers Zero (Belgium) - UZed
Etron Fou Leloublan (France) - Poumons Gonflés
Art Zoyd (France) - Génération SansFutur
Art Bears (England) - Winter Songs
Aksak Maboul (Belgium) - 11 Dances

[NogbadTheBad]

Its just a suggestion, and I personally have no problem lumping this music together (roughly speaking) if need be. Bottom line is that its just plain amazing music - regardless of our feeble attempts to label everything - and to me most folks would dig this stuff just the same.

A lot of Avant fans seem to enjoy Canterbury and Cardiacs.