"Jazz From Hell" and Zappa's Synclavier Period

**zombywoof** · 06-22-2015

Hi guys,

In anticipation of "Dance me This" (Frank Zappa's 100th album!), I've been binging like crazy on "Jazz From Hell". When I first got into Frank, this stuff and the early MOI stuff were barely touched. Well, I've spent the last few years discovering and appreciating the early MOI like crazy, so now it's time I move on to this 'other' undiscovered Zappa period!

So let's talk Zappa-clavier! And please no "I don't like it, it's too sterile, where's the guitar solos" (actually, see St Etienne for that).

To start this discussion off right, here comes a classic PE superlative - I think Night School and G-Spot Tornado are two of the best things FZ ever contributed to music and "Jazz from Hell" is as groundbreaking to electronic music as "Hot Rats", "Uncle Meat", and others were to rock.

Discuss!!

**zombywoof** · 06-22-2015

Hilarious background info on "While You Were Art III" ...

http://wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/While_You_Were_Out

**Mister Triscuits** · 06-22-2015

Jazz from Hell has never been my favorite of FZ's Synclavier ventures. Somehow tracks like "Night School" and G-Spot Tornado" just don't sound really Zappa-ish enough to me. Yet I totally love the Synclavier tracks on Mothers of Prevention, and I'd be hard pressed to tell you why those hit the spot when the JFH ones don't so much. Now Civilization Phaze III is a total, mind-blowing masterpiece. That's where FZ really came to grips with the Synclavier. JFH is baby steps by comparison.

I was pretty bowled over by Feeding the Monkies at Ma Maison, too, but I just haven't listened to that one enough to be familiar with it. And of course a lot of it is just alternate versions of material FZ released elsewhere.

**Steve F.** · 06-22-2015

I personally prefer listening to musicians play music. Even if it means they do so imperfectly.

YMMV.

**Zeuhlmate** · 06-22-2015

I think its great and I way prefer "Jazz From Hell" etc. to his bandprojects from the 'same' period (from Joes Garage to Broadway the Hard Way).
In the long run I can get a bit tired of the synclavier sounds, they get a bit 'samey' but it doesnt keep me from listening.

**zombywoof** · 06-22-2015

Originally Posted by Steve F.

I personally prefer listening to musicians play music. Even if it means they do so imperfectly.

YMMV.

I get that. I like both. The conductor of my local symphony says it best, "if it was made by humans, it's worth listening to". It was made by Frank, so I see it as a work of art made by a human.

**zombywoof** · 06-22-2015

One of the major draws for me to Jazz from Hell and Zappa's Synclavier works in general is that I do a similar thing. I am a fairly average musician and terrible with music theory, so for me, sitting down at the computer and exploring virtual instruments is a huge creative freedom. I've always been in love with the idea of a guy sitting down and having a world of sounds to play with at his fingertips and making music without the need to write charts, pay musicians, rehearse, etc. Just go in and make MUSIC.

**Steve F.** · 06-22-2015

Originally Posted by zombywoof

One of the major draws for me to Jazz from Hell and Zappa's Synclavier works in general is that I do a similar thing. I am a fairly average musician and terrible with music theory, so for me, sitting down at the computer and exploring virtual instruments is a huge creative freedom. I've always been in love with the idea of a guy sitting down and having a world of sounds to play with at his fingertips and making music without the need to write charts, pay musicians, rehearse, etc. Just go in and make MUSIC.

Everything you say is true.

The problem is that there are a million people doing it and it all sounds the same and they all send me demos.

I realize that Frank was way above being in that class as a composer, but, for the most part, I just don't want to hear those sounds. Everyone can make 'impossible to play' music now. There's nothing at all special about it. It bores me.

YMMV

**zombywoof** · 06-22-2015

Originally Posted by Steve F.

Everything you say is true.

The problem is that there are a million people doing it and it all sounds the same and they all send me demos.

I realize that Frank was way above being in that class as a composer, but, for the most part, I just don't want to hear those sounds. Everyone can make 'impossible to play' music now. There's nothing at all special about it. It bores me.

YMMV

Ha! Point taken. I do believe Frank managed to make music on the Synclavier that was very individualistic and sounded NOTHING like what anyone else was doing at the time or now. I was thinking that today, actually. Maybe you get a lot of submissions that are FZ Synclavier rip offs?

I get being burned out on that sound then - that's exactly how I feel about Genesis and Yes clones who send me music for AirPlay.

By the way, I'd never dream of sending you or anyone my music for that very reason. It's not intended to be heard by anyone, really (unless they want to) - because I know there's a LOT of stuff out there to chose from and what makes my music special? Not a whole lot, really, except it's special to me. I have no desire to make money from it. I make it for my own amusement and enjoyment.

**mx20** · 06-22-2015

Originally Posted by Steve F.

Everything you say is true.

The problem is that there are a million people doing it and it all sounds the same and they all send me demos.

I realize that Frank was way above being in that class as a composer, but, for the most part, I just don't want to hear those sounds. Everyone can make 'impossible to play' music now. There's nothing at all special about it. It bores me.

YMMV

Maybe enough time has passed that this particular era of sounds can be enjoyed in a "time-capsule" kind of way? In the same way the early 80s drum machines have periodically reappeared in the public ear, maybe this 80s/90s synclavier thing will, too? Maybe it has & I've missed it (can't say I'm looking, TBH). I do enjoy the present-day artist known as Tumble Weave, but I don't know what kind of gear he/she is using.

**unclemeat** · 06-22-2015

As a matter of fact, most of that album has now been transcribed / arranged for various chamber or rock ensembles, and is therefore humanly playable (the pioneer in that field being Mike Keneally with 'Nite school' ; one can hear some of it on one of the Tar tapes).

I know of (unless my RAM been bakin' too long) 'human' versions of these synclavier pieces :
The girl in the magnesium dress (Ensemble Modern)
Outside Now again (Keneally + Orchestra of our time ; wind quintet : Le Concert Impromptu)
Aerobics in Bondage (Harmonia Ensemble ; Asko ensemble ; NDR Sinfonieorchester)
Nite school (Zappa's Universe ; Ensemble Modern)
The beltway bandits (EM)
G-Spot tornado (EM ; ZpZ)
Jazz from Hell (Django Bates)
While you were art II (Absolute ensemble)
Feeding the monkies at ma maison (NDR Sinfonieorchester)
Samba Funk (Ascolta)
Put a motor in yourself (EM ; Asko ensemble ; NDR Sinfonieorchester)
Reagan at Bitburg (Ascolta, NDR Sinfonieorchester)
Navanax (Asko ensemble)
Amnerika (EM)
A pig with wings (EM)
I was in a drum (Ascolta)
and obviously most of the 'Yellow Shark' pieces (EM, Kronos, Aspen Wind quintet...)
+ some unreleased pieces :
Uncle Sam (Ascolta)
Reagan at Bitburg some more (NDR Sinfonieorchester)

There is also a synclavier version of 'The black page 1' ; and there may be ensemble versions for
Love story, Jonestown and X-mas values (planned for the EM, but not used, in their 'Greggery Peccary' programme ; I saw this on a concert poster).

In other words, 'humanly unplayable' may not, after all, have been FZ's primary motivation for creating this type of music.

Oh yes but also :

**zombywoof** · 06-22-2015

Originally Posted by mx20

Maybe enough time has passed that this particular era of sounds can be enjoyed in a "time-capsule" kind of way? In the same way the early 80s drum machines have periodically reappeared in the public ear, maybe this 80s/90s synclavier thing will, too? Maybe it has & I've missed it (can't say I'm looking, TBH). I do enjoy the present-day artist known as Tumble Weave, but I don't know what kind of gear he/she is using.

Oddly, I agree. I am personally finding 80s Synclavier and Fairlight stuff to be very enjoyable these days. I'm listening to that more than 'progressive rock' of the 70s (along with new releases of course)

**zombywoof** · 06-22-2015

Originally Posted by unclemeat

As a matter of fact, most of that album has now been transcribed / arranged for various chamber or rock ensembles, and is therefore humanly playable (the pioneer in that field being Mike Keneally with 'Nite school' ; one can hear some of it on one of the Tar tapes).

Ensemble Modern rocks a lot of this stuff! I can't remember the name of the disc - my buddy has it. He's on here; hopefully he'll chime in later.

**Steve F.** · 06-22-2015

Originally Posted by zombywoof

Ensemble Modern rocks a lot of this stuff! I can't remember the name of the disc - my buddy has it. He's on here; hopefully he'll chime in later.

I'd much rather listen to Ensemble Modern play the stuff than the synclavier. That's my personal preference.

The synclavier is the synclavier. It's a machine. it's perfect. Too perfect. At least it is for me for repeated listenings anyway.

I own Jazz From Hell. I like it ok. When I bought it, there was nothing else like it out there in terms of machine as performer, so I cut it a lot of slack for being the first. I mean, I don't blame Joy Division for being responsible for a lot of 2nd and 3rd rate Joy Divisions. They were first and they get the credit from me.

I listen to Jazz From hell still every now and then. I think it is the only Zappa album from the 80s I own or ever have owned. It's certainly much more to my taste than anything else he was doing in that period.

But I think that has more to do with what he was making his musicians do, rather than what he (or that machine) was capable of and also what type of music he chose to give to that machine (why didn't he give that type of music to his musicians? You'll have to ask him...)

chalkpie · 06-22-2015

I'm with 'ya Ian. I prefer 'Civilization Phaze III' by a pretty large margin, but there are compositions on 'Jazz', 'Perfect Stranger', 'Mothers of Prevention' that are beautiful, scary, complex, etc Great stuff. FZ never sat still and this was (at the time) his way to express himself musically, and I'm glad he did it. I can see the sonic element turning people off, but to each his own. I also love pieces by Ligeti and Nancarrow, and they essentially doing the same thing - just before FZ did. I also love Stevan Kovacs Tickmayer, and some of his music sounds (largely) sequenced to me as well. An updated "Jazz From Hell" would be an interesting project - imagine these compositions with 2015 technology....

**zombywoof** · 06-22-2015

Originally Posted by Steve F.

I'd much rather listen to Ensemble Modern play the stuff than the synclavier. That's my personal preference.

The synclavier is the synclavier. It's a machine. it's perfect. Too perfect. At least it is for me for repeated listenings anyway.

I own Jazz From Hell. I like it ok. When I bought it, there was nothing else like it out there in terms of machine as performer, so I cut it a lot of slack for being the first. I mean, I don't blame Joy Division for being responsible for a lot of 2nd and 3rd rate Joy Divisions. They were first and they get the credit from me.

I listen to Jazz From hell still every now and then. I think it is the only Zappa album from the 80s I own or ever have owned. It's certainly much more to my taste than anything else he was doing in that period.

But I think that has more to do with what he was making his musicians do, rather than what he (or that machine) was capable of and also what type of music he chose to give to that machine (why didn't he give that type of music to his musicians? You'll have to ask him...)

That's a very good question! I'm sure many of the bands would've ripped right through it. I suspect he might've been burned out on working with people and just wanted to make music. See - his experiences with the MOI, the LSO, and so on. No, I'm not saying that he treated people well all the time either, but maybe it was better for FZ and other musicians for him to work with the machine.

**Steve F.** · 06-22-2015

Originally Posted by zombywoof

...maybe it was better for FZ and other musicians for him to work with the machine.

Frank has basically said exactly that. Several times I believe, including in The Real FZ Book, iirc.

Just because it's optimum for FZ doesn't mean it's optimum for every listener.

chalkpie · 06-22-2015

One of my favorite pieces on 'Prevention'.

**Udi Koomran** · 06-22-2015

I consider Civilization to be one of zappa absolute masterworks and one of the most technologically advanced pieces of music ever recorded his ability to create synergy of man (Ensemble_Modern) and machine (Synclavier) is jst wonderful .

**Vic2012** · 06-22-2015

Never been a Zappa fan. Jazz From Hell was one of two Zappa albums I bought over a decade ago when I thought I'd explore Frank Zappa. Jazz From Hell was one of the lower priced Zappa CDs I could find. The only track I remember from JFH was St. Etienne (or something like that). I think it was the only track that didn't have synclavier. I still don't know what it is. Is it a synth/keyboard? Anyway, I couldn't stand it, traded it away. The only Zappa record I have is Waka Jawaca.

**Dave (in MA)** · 06-22-2015

I remember when this came out. I'll have to see if there were any affz posts about it (or was that even formed yet?)...

**grego** · 06-22-2015

I think Prevention I like better than JFH. It is more various, there are some nice guitar stuff on it. JFH is boring...because of synclavier toyish sound. Nice for a couple of tracks, but the entire album is too much.