"Jazz From Hell" and Zappa's Synclavier Period

[zombywoof]

Probably my favorite track on the album. Gorgeous melody--i get a little flash of Mahler in that tune.

I need to listen to Civilization Phase 3. As this is the first time I've really decided to get into the synclavier material, I don't remember that much of it.

[mkeneally]

I love Frank's composing pretty unreservedly, and sometimes when I want to hear it in 100% unvarnished fashion the Synclavier music scratches that itch in a way very different from his orchestral music, which I also love of course. I think "Jazz From Hell" is in some ways the least timbrally appealing of the Synclavier albums. As pure sound, "Feeding The Monkies" is probably the most glorious, for my ears the best engineered, which with music like this (explorations in pure sound) is really important. If you listen to the tracks on "Monkies" which were later edited and remixed on "Civilization" you can hear how much digital reverb was added and how much presence was lost as a result - it worked in context with what Frank was going for conceptually on "Civ III" (which I think is a magnificent construct), but as sound the "Monkies" versions drive me wild, they sound so good.

"Dance Me This" is a fantastic album, really subtle but outlandishly beautiful in sound and orchestration - I'm interested to find out how PE folks will take to it.

[zombywoof]

^ Ah man, your last paragraph has got me even more excited than I already was!!

[Lieto]

Man I love the synclavier stuff (and everything Frank). Just stunning compositions everywhere and its some of his most difficult music too. Civ Phase III is my favorite so far, but Jazz From hell is amazing and count me in with the lovers of the Mothers of Prevention pieces too, fun! You can hear one of those as the mid set break music during the 88 band tour at the end of Stairway (Mike Keneally confirm this?)

With a lot f these pieces and some of Frank's best guitar solos, I always picture him plucking at the cosmos creating some of the most glorious music of space and time. Magic baby.

Also, that Ensemble Modern disc is incredible. A Pig With Wings is just beautiful.

[Lieto]

Probably my favorite track on the album. Gorgeous melody--i get a little flash of Mahler in that tune.

Probably mine too. And Mahler? I gotta listen again now, Mahler is my other favorite composer.

[GuitarGeek]

The only track I remember from JFH was St. Etienne (or something like that). I think it was the only track that didn't have synclavier. I still don't know what it is. Is it a synth/keyboard? Anyway, I couldn't stand it, traded it away. The only Zappa record I have is Waka Jawaca (sic).

It's a full band, with Frank playing a guitar solo on top. It's taken from a live version of Drowning Witch.

[Udi Koomran]

Ok its clear I need to get me the Feeding The Monkies
its probably a matter of taste and I am curious to compare cause for me Civilization is one of the best sounding album I own

I love Frank's composing pretty unreservedly, and sometimes when I want to hear it in 100% unvarnished fashion the Synclavier music scratches that itch in a way very different from his orchestral music, which I also love of course. I think "Jazz From Hell" is in some ways the least timbrally appealing of the Synclavier albums. As pure sound, "Feeding The Monkies" is probably the most glorious, for my ears the best engineered, which with music like this (explorations in pure sound) is really important. If you listen to the tracks on "Monkies" which were later edited and remixed on "Civilization" you can hear how much digital reverb was added and how much presence was lost as a result - it worked in context with what Frank was going for conceptually on "Civ III" (which I think is a magnificent construct), but as sound the "Monkies" versions drive me wild, they sound so good.

"Dance Me This" is a fantastic album, really subtle but outlandishly beautiful in sound and orchestration - I'm interested to find out how PE folks will take to it.

[aith01]

I love Frank's composing pretty unreservedly, and sometimes when I want to hear it in 100% unvarnished fashion the Synclavier music scratches that itch in a way very different from his orchestral music, which I also love of course. I think "Jazz From Hell" is in some ways the least timbrally appealing of the Synclavier albums. As pure sound, "Feeding The Monkies" is probably the most glorious, for my ears the best engineered, which with music like this (explorations in pure sound) is really important. If you listen to the tracks on "Monkies" which were later edited and remixed on "Civilization" you can hear how much digital reverb was added and how much presence was lost as a result - it worked in context with what Frank was going for conceptually on "Civ III" (which I think is a magnificent construct), but as sound the "Monkies" versions drive me wild, they sound so good.

"Dance Me This" is a fantastic album, really subtle but outlandishly beautiful in sound and orchestration - I'm interested to find out how PE folks will take to it.

Looks like I've got to get some more Zappa albums then. Thanks for posting, I was on the fence but now I'm quite intrigued!

[unclemeat]

One of my favorite Synclavier pieces is "The grand wazoo" on the Lost Episodes. Boulezian to the max (I could use a purely instrumental version, though).

Speeffy pre-Phaze 3 documentary here : Peefeeyatko (1991)



Stockhausen's Oktophonie is a not too distant relative :

[flowerking]

As a matter of fact, most of that album has now been transcribed / arranged for various chamber or rock ensembles, and is therefore humanly playable (the pioneer in that field being Mike Keneally with 'Nite school' ; one can hear some of it on one of the Tar tapes).

I know of (unless my RAM been bakin' too long) 'human' versions of these synclavier pieces :
(list omitted)

Wow, fine job compiling this list. Its amazing that bands/orchestras have pulled off these pieces, some of which are the most complex pieces of music ever composed (my opinion).

My problem with Jazz From Hell is not so much the compositions as the sounds Zappa chose to use in their performances. G-Spot Tornado is a fantastic piece but I find it nearly unlistenable on Jazz From Hell whereas the EM or ZPZ versions are pure gold. Night School is the only Jazz From Hell piece I regularly listen to.

[Lieto]

Ok folks, almost through with my first listen of Dance Me This. I love the crap out of it. Beautiful recording, awesome pieces, the tuvans rule, Really accessable in some places, and to top it all off it has the last known time FZ played guitar on the title track. The first track for some reason reminds me of a piece on Keneally's You Must Be This Tall. It could almost fit right in.

[zombywoof]

Okay, first listen through to "Dance me This". Some thoughts ...

First off, the thing that surprised me was that this really isn't a collection of pieces, but rather one cohesive, 50 minute piece of music with no stops or breaks. The Tuvans are all over it - mostly toward the beginning and near the end. The centerpiece of the album is a piece called "Wolf's Harbor" which is a multipart, pure Xenakis / Henry Cow "Beginning: the Long March" percussion and sound effects head trip! The opening couple of tracks are pretty straight forward (with an all too brief guitar solo that could've been longer IMO - it's almost too tasteful), and there's also a really stunning piano workout that is very atonal, but beautiful.

If I didn't know better, I'd have thought this was an orchestral album, really. The synclavier had evolved to the point where it sounded almost identical to real instruments. Basically, I loved this. It's challenging as you'd imagine it to be, but also very joyful. You can really hear Frank playing around and exploring in the final part of his life and that's inspiring. Not essential to the casual fan by any means, but fans of the 'serious' side of FZ will love it. Recommend to you diehards unconditionally.

I think my next step is to turn off the computer for a few days, disconnect, and really explore Civilization Phase 3. Get to know it for the master work it really is.

[walt]

For me, based on one complete listen of Dance Me This, it's rather hit and miss.The first and last tracks(the ones with the Tuvan throat singers) are the high points, along with the seven minute "piano" track, titled "Piano".Starting with the second track and all the Wolf Harbor tracks, i find them somewhat uninvolving, mostly percussion, rather spare,and i just couldn't warm to them.Obviously, this is Frank Zappa, and on subsequent listens, perhaps more of the music will be revealed to me than on first listen.

Civ Ph III is the only other synclavier cd of FZ i own, and i dig it muchly.I ordered Monkies/Ma Maison.

Another listen of Dance Me This is on my agenda today.

[Rufus]

Very adapt title, all Jazz sounds like it's from Hell!

[Gorillclub]

zappa synclavier works are not so bad and enjoyable (specialy civilization phase III) but it' looks like a joke compare to this (for exemple ):

[zombywoof]

Very adapt title, all Jazz sounds like it's from Hell!

Funny that, the title track from that record sounds like electronic bebop to me!

[Dave (in MA)]

What do people think of Resolver+Brutality?

[Steve F.]

What do people think of Resolver+Brutality?

1. I'd never heard of it. So, thank you for bringing it to my attention.

2. It's 'interesting'.

3. Again, I used to get demos that sound like this constantly. It's hard for me to be amazed by the talent of FZ on something like this when it is being performed using 'those sounds' on a machine that - to me - sounds like a machine. It's perfect.

meh.

I sort of feel like I am being a 'thread party pooper' and I don't mean to be. I guess I've made my point and I'll refrain from saying the same thing again, if I have nothing new to add to this interesting thread.

[zombywoof]

I sort of feel like I am being a 'thread party pooper' and I don't mean to be. I guess I've made my point and I'll refrain from saying the same thing again, if I have nothing new to add to this interesting thread.

It's cool! As always, I value your opinion, even when I don't agree with it (which is rare).

[Polypet]

Ok its clear I need to get me the Feeding The Monkies
its probably a matter of taste and I am curious to compare cause for me Civilization is one of the best sounding album I own

Seconded. I've never even heard of this before...

I love Frank's composing pretty unreservedly, and sometimes when I want to hear it in 100% unvarnished fashion the Synclavier music scratches that itch in a way very different from his orchestral music, which I also love of course. I think "Jazz From Hell" is in some ways the least timbrally appealing of the Synclavier albums. As pure sound, "Feeding The Monkies" is probably the most glorious, for my ears the best engineered, which with music like this (explorations in pure sound) is really important. If you listen to the tracks on "Monkies" which were later edited and remixed on "Civilization" you can hear how much digital reverb was added and how much presence was lost as a result - it worked in context with what Frank was going for conceptually on "Civ III" (which I think is a magnificent construct), but as sound the "Monkies" versions drive me wild, they sound so good.

"Dance Me This" is a fantastic album, really subtle but outlandishly beautiful in sound and orchestration - I'm interested to find out how PE folks will take to it.

Dance Me This.... glorious. Some of his finest percussion writing too. Some brilliant textures and very interesting forms. Lovely package too, imo. Nice picture of FZ.

[chalkpie]

Wasn't this ultimately the desire of FZ to finally hear his insane rhythmic tuplets finally played correctly?

[zombywoof]

Wasn't this ultimately the desire of FZ to finally hear his insane rhythmic tuplets finally played correctly?

I love music played by humans as much as anyone, but there's also something to be said for 'unfiltered vision'. IMO. Jazz From Hell isn't my favorite Zappa - in fact, I'm really just discovering it now and making a concerted effort to do so! I want to learn to appreciate an important period in my favorite composer's life.

[Polypet]

All composers thrill to hearing their music played "perfectly" (i know i do), especially difficult contemporary ensemble stuff which is almost impossible to even get performed (unless you have a lot of money and time). So i do get that. FZ had probably never heard his pieces performed with 100% accuracy and it surely blew his mind. I wanted a Synclavier so bad back in the day, once i heard about it. Of course, they weren't cheap.

His rhythmic ideas alone are notoriously intricate, let alone his ensemble writing which is very special (None of the Above comes to mind). I can imagine that the machine was earth shaking for him. He did comment on this a lot. And when JFH came out remember, as Steve says, there was literally nothing else like it. People may poo poo the sounds now (as some often do with period sounds) but they were unique and extremely cool when it first came out. FM synthesis had come a long way. My wife and i were working with primitive digital FM cards back in the early 80s and you could see the promise then but this was on a whole different level of cool. I played JFH to death when it first came out. Not only that but it had come out not long after the Boulez album. It was such a treat to hear FZ's orchestral stuff being performed at such a high level. He must have been ecstatic.

That said, and as someone who also uses machines to do my bidding from time to time, there is nothing like a live performance by humans. I'm with Steve F, it's my preference too. But as a contemporary composer myself, i know how hard it is to actually find humans to play my stuff. It's HARD. Being able to render performances on a machine, though not necessarily always ideal, is a godsend. And the Synclavier evolved to be a pretty damn mighty beast over the years. One listen to the fantastic "Dance Me This" makes it clear how authentic it can sound (though still not quite genuine). I wouldn't kick that thing out of bed. You know, if i had one in bed with me

My favourite orchestral album of his by a long way though is still "The Yellow Shark" which is excellent. And the Ensemble Modern performances of the JFH material is simply astounding. The original recorded performances on the Synclavier will always have their own special place in my heart, however. They were one of a kind and so mind blowing when that album was first released. It is too bad about the posers and mimics. It's never about "writing unplayable music" because one can and having a machine perform it. Rehearsal intensive music needn't be about superfluous complexity - as Steve says "it bores me"

Man, i miss Frank :P

Sorry for the novella! Carry on...

[unclemeat]

"Ruth is sleeping" was the first piece FZ wrote on the synclavier.

Morgan Agren has posted this on FB today :
"I had a chat w Scott Thunes yesterday who reminded me about this one. In 1993 Zappa invited me and Mats to be apart of an orchestral project at Lincoln Center NYC, playing Franks music w full orchestra. One of the cool things was that Mats was going to perform the world premiere of Franks solo piano piece called ”Ruth Is Sleeping”. Mats got very excited off course, until he received the tape of the piece… Mats started bravely to pick out the notes but it was too fast and too hard to hear the notes on this tape (in original speed). So a score was sent over. Mats borrowed some time from the great pianist Carl Axel Dominique who recorded the whole piece for Mats in a slower tempo. Mats got reliefed and continued to work on the piece. Just a few weeks before the concert Mats was only 60-70% through the piece and had to call Frank about this. Knowing how strict Frank could be, his answer was just amazing. He told Mats ”play the parts you know, then improvise, and just add the ending”… - which he did. When it was time for this piece to be performed me Scott, Keneally & co. was standing on the side of the stage watching Mats go for it. It was dead silent in the hall, and it was sooo great, the improvised parts too off course. In my opinion Mats version had moments that was even better than the original Yellow Shark performance. Now the funny thing was that Scott had asked Mats if he wanted to stop halfway through his performance and shout to the audience "oh my God I'm blind!” - but that didn’t happen! Hahahaha… Happy memory anyways! "

[Dave (in MA)]

I sort of feel like I am being a 'thread party pooper' and I don't mean to be.

We're used to it.