Kultivator "Barndomens Stigar"

[BrianG]

Kultivator's bassist played recently on the Lost Kite record, which is pretty good. He seems to have tuned the bass OK but lost his "throb".
https://lostkite.bandcamp.com/
More recently, the Swedish band Nomads of Hope is a project at whose core are two former members of late 70s outfit Kultivator, multi-instrumentalists Johan Hedrén and Ingemo Rylander, whose vocals provide one of the album’s highlights.
https://nomadsofhope.bandcamp.com/releases

[Udi Koomran]

"lost his "throb

[chalkpie]

You can't have your throb and tune it too......

[mellotron storm]

I guess I agree with the Gnosis raters then as for me this is a five star album. And it's also very much Zeuhl influenced with the fuzzed out bass, Fender Rhodes and repetitive vocals. I hear Zeuhl on several tracks so maybe I need to get my hearing checked. Interesting that Anekdoten lists them as an influence and I wonder if the track "Vemod" on this Kultivator album had anything to do with the title Of Anekdoten's first record, maybe a coincidence.

[Levgan]

As one of the Gnosis raters who are responsible for this being hailed as one of the greatest albums from Scandinavia (although my grade is a relatively humble 12 compared to many others' 14s and 15s), I feel the need to defend Kultivator. It's probably a personal thing, but if pressed to choose between the established pinnacles of any genre and albums that aspire to reach that level (but probably fail after all), I'd almost always go with the latter. It's that music in the state of becoming is infinitely more interesting for me than music that has already reached its destination (jeez, I apologize for making it all sound so cryptic, this is not an easy point to make on a foreign language). My never-ending quest for progressive rock obscurities stems from this notion. I'd always prefer a schoolband doing "Close to the Edge" to the actual "Close to the Edge".

"Barndomens Stigar" firmly falls into the latter camp. Objectively speaking, it surely has its shortcomings, but for me it all gets down to a simple fact: there's this bunch of young Swedish weirdos attempting something clearly outside their compositional abilities at the time. As such, the album exemplifies challenge - we're well used to progressive rock being challenging for the listener, but what about challenge for the musician? This is what I hear on it - in spades. There is challenge, and there is sincere attempt at overcoming this challenge, and all this is a great pleasure - a sensation, really - to observe in real time, as the music pours from the speakers.

Examples? That zeuhlish bass unheard of in Scandinavian music at the time - did they, like, invent it in their neck of woods? The reimagining of Fender Rhodes, as justly pointed out by others in this thread - that schlock-y, muzak-y instrument, so typical for the lite fusion kind of sound, for once oozing with danger and disquiet. That uniquely Nordic thing of adding local folk stylings to the imported jazz, rock and avant-garde conceptions. Everything, really - and while some of these experiments were doomed from the start, it's such a joy to see them trying all of those things out, whatever the results.

Interesting that Anekdoten lists them as an influence and I wonder if the track "Vemod" on this Kultivator album had anything to do with the title Of Anekdoten's first record, maybe a coincidence.

Could be deliberate, but I wouldn't put my money on that as "vemod" is just "sadness" in Swedish. So may well be a coincidence.

[saulgoodman]

I'm in the camp that believes this is one of the greatest progressive rock albums ever made. No other band combined Canterbury, Zeuhl, and Swedish folk melodies like Kultivator did. As far as the sonic qualities, the original LP on Bauta sounds amazing. No complaints there...

[Levgan]

Yeah, I forgot to say that I only became a Kultivator convert after getting the original LP. Previously, it was in the "good but not great" camp for me, but after I spun the near mint copy of the record on Bauta a couple of times I discovered a lot of new qualities in it (some of which I mentioned in my rant above). This is not to say that the CDs sound bad (in fact I've never heard the last reissue, and it's been at least a few years since I last played my old CD on APM), but just to put things into perspective.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

Lev, your description makes me wanna revisit this... I haven't spun it in years and do not remember being very impressed

jury out

[Levgan]

Cool - let us know what you think this time around. I can't guarantee it'll win you over, of course... it's actually been a slow grower for me as well. But once it clicked - mostly for the reasons I tried to outline in my previous post - there was no going back for me!

[spacefreak]

Love the Kultivator album. I'm adding (to this very interesting discussion) the info that the album cover was painted by no other than the experimental artist (and sound sculptor) Leif Elggren, great King of the Kingdom of Elgaland-Vargaland.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

Cool - let us know what you think this time around. I can't guarantee it'll win you over, of course... it's actually been a slow grower for me as well. But once it clicked - mostly for the reasons I tried to outline in my previous post - there was no going back for me!

well, it is definitely an enjoyable album, but I cant really say there were any WOW! moments...
the mastering is horrid. sounds like it was recorded behind a blanket!
I'll be digitally remastering this album some day for sure

as to the Zeuhlishness of it all
there are short passages that sound like Zeuhl but it is most definitely of the Canterbury variety of sound for the most part.
Track 8 is the one where a person might say 'this is a Zeuhl album!' but other than that... Canterbury is the proper designation

[Levgan]

Hard to argue that there is a pronounced influence of Canterbury sound here. I do think they made their own take on it, though, rather than conform to the existing examples of the genre. Likewise with zeuhl.

Anyway, glad to hear that you enjoyed the album. Do you have it on LP or CD? Vinyl sounded perfectly fine for me, though I'm not an audiophile so I tend to take notice of the bad sound only when it's, like, totally atrocious. Soft Machine's "Third" is case in point, and it still is one of my desert island records.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

i have the CD. It seems from reading here that the LP doesnt sound as bad as the CD

[Pr33t]

Guys, guys, what the hell is wrong with all of you? I expected much better! At least Lev has jumped in here to talk some sense here... As for the sound, I can only comment on the LP or the original APM CD, which I recall not having any deleterious issues. Could the 2CD remaster be suffocating it in some way?

I'm one of those with a 14 grade on this, which has long been a favorite since the first time I heard it. Combine a Canterburian National Health, a touch of Zeuhl, and ethnic Swedish prog, and you have three of my favorite prog idioms rolled into one. There is a sense of excitement and propulsion to the album from that first snare hit and bass throb. Lev already covered this better than I can:

There is challenge, and there is sincere attempt at overcoming this challenge, and all this is a great pleasure - a sensation, really - to observe in real time, as the music pours from the speakers...Examples? That zeuhlish bass unheard of in Scandinavian music at the time - did they, like, invent it in their neck of woods? The reimagining of Fender Rhodes, as justly pointed out by others in this thread - that schlock-y, muzak-y instrument, so typical for the lite fusion kind of sound, for once oozing with danger and disquiet. That uniquely Nordic thing of adding local folk stylings to the imported jazz, rock and avant-garde conceptions. Everything, really - and while some of these experiments were doomed from the start, it's such a joy to see them trying all of those things out, whatever the results.

This idea of a challenge really speaks to the essence of the album, and is one of those things that many of my favorite albums share; that lack of full polish and naivety that comes from a young, adventurous band, or one riding at just the crest of a wave of brilliant ideas that will come crashing down if they stop for a moment and actually look at what they are doing. There is an energy and inventiveness that truly sets albums like this apart. To me, it is in the realm of something like Semiramis in this regard, where a young group comes up with something unique right out of the gate, with little regard for convention. That's where the magic is for me.

[Levgan]

that lack of full polish and naivety that comes from a young, adventurous band, or one riding at just the crest of a wave of brilliant ideas that will come crashing down if they stop for a moment and actually look at what they are doing. There is an energy and inventiveness that truly sets albums like this apart.

Well said! They are not afraid of anything, it seems. Who cares if they haven't yet mastered a certain musical mode or style yet? Surely not them - they just dive headfirst into it and try to work their way around it in real time rather than spending days and weeks perfecting their ideas until they become stale and overdone. That's how much of my favorite music is made.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

I was not aware of a 2 CD reissue

how is the music on the 2nd disc?
is it every bit as entertaining as the debut?

[Scrotum Scissor]

I was not aware of a 2 CD reissue

What?!

[Udi Koomran]

The bonus disc on the "expanded edition" contains tracks recorded in 2006

[calyx]

As for the sound, I can only comment on the LP or the original APM CD, which I recall not having any deleterious issues. Could the 2CD remaster be suffocating it in some way?

For what it's worth, I found the remastering, for all the good it did in other respects, made the ride cymbal really prominent in a way that I find very unpleasant.
Any opinions ?

[Scrotum Scissor]

made the ride cymbal really prominent in a way that I find very unpleasant. Any opinions ?

Even more pronounced ride cymbal than on the original APM CD issue? Well, that can't possibly be good - although I find the drumming generally very solid on the album.

[Sputnik]

I was not aware of a 2 CD reissue

how is the music on the 2nd disc?
is it every bit as entertaining as the debut?

IMO, no, not by a long shot, and I'm sad to say that because I was really looking forward to this reissue. The newer stuff has none of the elements that attract me to the debut, totally forgettable and I've rarely played it past a few times when I first got it.

For what it's worth, I found the remastering, for all the good it did in other respects, made the ride cymbal really prominent in a way that I find very unpleasant.
Any opinions ?

As far as the re-mastering of the first album on the 2CD set, I actually think it's pretty good, but not enough of an improvement to justify getting this if you have the APM disc (as I do). I think the re-master has better bass dynamics and the Rhodes sounds deeper. The whole thing just sounds "fuller." I don't specifically recall the ride cymbal issue, you could be right. But like I say, for those who have the APM edition, even the somewhat better sound isn't enough of an improvement to get the 2CD set. But if you don't have the album, then the 2CD edition is fine for the first album, imo.

Bill