Zappa - Drowning Witch

[zombywoof]

Haven't played it for a couple of years. Put on the second half tonight (Drowning Witch suite) and followed Franks advice in the liner notes and ran it flat, no treble no bass. Just add volume and voila! What an experience! Killer band, firing on all cylinders, weird / high energy composition, a mind bending solo, and some HEAVY rocking stuff near the end (Envelopes and Teenage Prostitute).

I loved it so much, I went ahead and listened to the first half. IMO, 'side 1' should be required listening for aspiring bass players! Wow, what a sound and totally virtuosic playing on the first two cuts. Valley Girl has perhaps the best bassline in novelty song history! Simply an amazing late period FZ album, from a time when (for me) his rock albums were declining in quality. Any other weird Drowning Witch fans here?

[Adm.Kirk]

I've never followed the instructions, but have always thought it was a fine album. The first FZ album I ever bought was Man From Utopia and that's another album that gets little love but I thinks it's terrific.

Bill

[undergroundrailroad]

Side 2 is one of my very favorite album sides ever. Just thrilling all the way through to me. His live/studio mash-ups really could capture the best of both worlds and this is probably my favorite, even more than Roxy and Elsewhere.

[zravkapt]

His best '80s album ... I M O

[polmico]

"Drowning Witch" is probably my favorite Zappa song.

I don't think that's weird, right?

[spellbound]

String beans to Utah.

Great album.

[chalkpie]

Side two is one of the best FZ sides ever IMO. I could write a dissertation alone on how good the 9/8 reggae groove is during the first solo on the title track - check out the rhythm section for a fuckin' clinic on how to groove HARD on this vamp. Exceptional production as well - and keep in mind there are multiple live shows edited together, and this was way before ProTools and co. More proof that this guy was indeed a musical genius.

[Lebofsky]

Drowning Witch side 2 was my entry into the whole Zappa world. Somebody suggested that to me as a launching off point, and it worked.

- Matt

[trurl]

Easily one of my top 10 Zappa albums, and for sure the best of the 80 (that I've heard, which actually does narrow it down a lot).

[GuitarGeek]

I loved it so much, I went ahead and listened to the first half. IMO, 'side 1' should be required listening for aspiring bass players! Wow, what a sound and totally virtuosic playing on the first two cuts. Valley Girl has perhaps the best bassline in novelty song history! Simply an amazing late period FZ album, from a time when (for me) his rock albums were declining in quality. Any other weird Drowning Witch fans here?

I'd have to dig the magazine out and re-read the interview, but I remember when Frank was interviewed in Guitar Player in 1983, he said that Valley Girl, and I can't remember if it's No Not Now or I Come From Nowhere, the bass lines were punched in one bar at a time. I think he said he'd hum the part to Arthur Barrow, and then Arthur would play it, then they'd move onto the next bar, and so on, until the track was done.

I think Frank said that on Valley Girl, he also considered releasing the track with just him and the drummer (Chad, I think), because it actually started off with him and the drummer jamming together at like 2 in the morning or whatever. So one idea was just to have drums, guitar, and the vocals. And it wasn't until the last minute they added the bass line.

BTW, this is a good record, but I still wish Frank had kept the Drowning Witch/What's New In Baltimore?/Moggio suite that was played on the 81 US tour intact.

[jupiter0rjapan]

Actually, this is the second album I ever heard by Zappa. The first was "Freak Out". That is when I knew that I had a lot of ground to cover!

[Drakma]

I could not possibly agree more about the bass line on Valley Girl. Magic on its own

[chalkpie]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Wacko-man was still electronic drum-less at this point, yeah? I think that was the case with "Utopia" as well, and then things went south (sonically) on "Thing-Fish" and "Them or Us". Boo.

[progman1975]

I guess I need to break this out again...Long Live Uncle Frank!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chalkpie]

[Udi Koomran]

I know for some 80's FZ is blasphemy so I am glad to know I am not alone in liking this era

[chalkpie]

I know for some 80's FZ is blasphemy so I am glad to know I am not alone in liking this era

The era is pretty vast and huge, so can you be more specific about what you don't like? There is studio rock, classical, synclavier, multiple live incarnations including 81 - 88 live bands, etc

Udi - side two of this album ("Drowning Witch", "Envelopes", and "Teenage Prostitute") is just an absolute genius side of music in any capacity - are you not a fan? The solo sections alone in DW are culled from live shows and are breathtaking IMO. I can see how some folks jump ship in '84 and beyond, but there are absolute gems here like "The Perfect Stranger", "You Are What....", "LSO vol I and II", and then the 88 band albums which is one of FZ's greatest live bands ever. Its is definitely more hit-or-miss, especially compared to the 60's and 70's, but to write the entire 80's off?

[polmico]

I find a lot to like in the '80s material, particularly '80-'82. Buffalo is one of my favoritest live FZ albums. The '82 YCDTOSA disc is very good, too. I'd love to hear more complete shows from this time period.

[zombywoof]

The era is pretty vast and huge, so can you be more specific about what you don't like? There is studio rock, classical, synclavier, multiple live incarnations including 81 - 88 live bands, etc

Udi - side two of this album ("Drowning Witch", "Envelopes", and "Teenage Prostitute") is just an absolute genius side of music in any capacity - are you not a fan? The solo sections alone in DW are culled from live shows and are breathtaking IMO. I can see how some folks jump ship in '84 and beyond, but there are absolute gems here like "The Perfect Stranger", "You Are What....", "LSO vol I and II", and then the 88 band albums which is one of FZ's greatest live bands ever. Its is definitely more hit-or-miss, especially compared to the 60's and 70's, but to write the entire 80's off?

I think you may have misread Udi's post, Frankie. He said "I'm glad to know I am not alone in liking this era".

[chalkpie]

I think you may have misread Udi's post, Frankie. He said "I'm glad to know I am not alone in liking this era".

Hahaha- oooops! He's forgiven

In all seriousness - my eyesight is total shit these days - I can't read with glasses and need book pages basically up my nostrils to see the words. I'm an old bastard.

[Zeuhlmate]

O.K. - I'll be the hair in the soup.
I dont like it at all.
Well, zappa in the 80'ties is better than a lot of other crap, but still mostly annoying, and dissapointing when you think of what he can do.

80's quality Zappa output IMO:

Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar Box
Boulez Conducts Zappa: The Perfect Stranger
Jazz from Hell
You Can't Do That on Stage Anymore, Vol. 2

[chalkpie]

^ no '88 band albums? How can one NOT like that stuff? "Jazz Noise" is one of the great live albums EVER IMO.

[profusion]

I've been enjoying this album lately, but then I've also been coming around to really liking Them or Us, too. Zappa's '80s output probably needs a critical reevaluation, but I think one has to be able to enjoy '80s production values to truly enjoy these albums. Since I grew up in that era, it's less difficult for me.

[GuitarGeek]

^ no '88 band albums? How can one NOT like that stuff? "Jazz Noise" is one of the great live albums EVER IMO.

Make A Jazz Noise Here is a great album. Mike Keneally told me he considered the second half of disc two to be the best thing Frank put out of the 88 band.

Personally my favorite 80's era Zappa albums are:
Them Or Us: a great double LP with something for everyone, ie intricate instrumental pieces, straight blues cover, condescending satire pieces, etc. Marqueson's Chicken and Sinister Footwear are both great instrumentals, featuring Steve Vai's excellent stunt guitar work (as well as Frank's always amazing guitar solos), and I actually kinda like what he did with Whipping Post. I even like Truck Driver Divorce, a genuinely funny country music parody.

Guitar: I know it's fashionable in most quarters to cite the Shut Up N Play Yer Guitar albums as being better, but I always preferred Guitar. I like where Frank went his playing after he started playing that custom Strat with the Floyd Rose, the high output pickups, and the custom EQ circuit. And I love that bit on When No One Was No One, where he does this crazy whammy bar noise and loops it, creating this sort of machine like rhythm thing.

Frank Zappa Meets The Mothers Of Prevention: Porn Wars is one of Frank's best satire pieces (I particularly love the Thing Fish interlude, "As ugly as I may be, I am yo' futum!". And we finally get the instrumental version of What's New In Baltimore? on an album, which works rather nicely on it's own, though as I said before I wish Frank had kept the suite intact on the official release. The only thing I really don't like on this albums We're Turning Again, another of Frank's snot nosed condescending satire songs (which by itself would be obnoxious, but he manages to insult to injury, repeat the myth about Cass Elliott joking to death on a ham sandwich).

Admittedly, though, I've never heard Tinseltown Rebellion, Man From Utopia or You Are What You Is (apart from whichever tracks are on the live things that came out later). I always liked Dumb All Over, though, thought that was another of Frank's vocal things that weren't just "Oh, I so much smarter than all the rest of you stupid people" things. Plus the vocal could be sorta described as "rap".

[chalkpie]

Make A Jazz Noise Here is a great album. Mike Keneally told me he considered the second half of disc two to be the best thing Frank put out of the 88 band.

MK didn't even need to tell that to me - I already knew it

It certainly is the most technical, but then again, don't take my "Broadway the Hard Way" or "Best Band" away from me. In my book they are all incredible and very different considering its the same band on the same nights!