All cream of the crop Yes, except for "Revealing Science" (IMO).
All cream of the crop Yes, except for "Revealing Science" (IMO).
Nope. It's brilliant and dense, and a pinnacle for Yes. Once you 'know' it, it doesn't 'ramble'. And the best sides are 2 and 3.Originally Posted by kid_runningfox
Quote Originally Posted by kid_runningfox View Post
No, Steve, it really didn't. It's as much of a rambling, sprawling mess now as it was back in 1973.
No running fox, you just don't have ears that are up to it.
And another vote here for the omission of "To Be Over" and "Awaken." He did his best work on those albums between '71 and '80 (his work on Drama is particularly underrated, I think), so I'm not surprised that he didn't pick anything from the period since he rejoined.
If it were up to me, I'd have included "The Gates of Delirium" and "America," but I'm not Steve Howe.His solo on "America" is probably my favorite thing that he's done with the band.
I've never cared much for Tales, and although it's still my least favorite album from their classic '70s run, I've softened toward sides 1 and 4 over the years. There's indeed some nice music in there. But I'd be fine if I never heard anything from sides 2 and 3 again.
It's not the rambling that gets me, it's the plodding. There's plenty of pretty going on, but a bit more bite and growl please!Nope. It's brilliant and dense, and a pinnacle for Yes. Once you 'know' it, it doesn't 'ramble'. And the best sides are 2 and 3.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world.
Oh boy.
and
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
But that 'freakout' keyboard/percussion section, which some don't care for, is one of the best things they ever did IMHO, and is Yes at their most 'out there'.
Last edited by JJ88; 03-14-2016 at 02:26 AM.
Don't tell me (OR Steve Howe!) TFTO is a rambling, sprawling mess, or that it should have been a single LP. It's a cliche, it's a boring standpoint. Many of us regard it as Yes' masterpiece. It was intended as 80 minutes of music and no less, and if you can't take all of it, then you maybe shouldn't bother with any of it.
For those of us who love Tales, it is often sides 2 & 3 that become the most appealing over time. That's difficult for those who don't care for the album to understand, and I get that. But I love it all, and I'm a beginning-to-end Tales listener. All four sides have been my favourite at one time or another.
Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.
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My ears are fine, thank you. It's just that I like some discernible form, development, structure and dynamics to my music - and I have rarely found it to be evident anywhere in much of the largely horizontal, flat and shapeless plethora of seriously undercooked ideas that make up the bulk of 'Topographic'. If you think it's a masterpiece then fine, enjoy, but this is one occasion when I think the often rightly maligned critics were absolutely bang on.
Why not? Isn't debate supposed to be good and healthy? The fact that many seem to be so touchy about this seems to imply that many of the criticisms of 'Topographic' have some weight to them - otherwise why be so touchy? And it's equally fair to say that clichés often become so for a reason. Anyway, isn't this whole site supposed to be about debate over the music we (mostly) love? When were such topics declared off-limits?? I clearly must have missed something in my long absence...
Well maybe it was that it seemed to me that you were presenting it's "sprawling, rambling" aspects as fact, and telling Steve Howe he was wrong for thinking it worked !
I do think you have a point though when you say that fans of this album can be touchy :-) I think we're just sick of it being the `go to' album to illustrate over indulgence etc, when in reality it's packed with great tunes, colourful lyrics and great playing. There are hundreds of albums more worthy of derision.
I agree. I used to hate that bit, but then seeing it live, I appreciated what it brought to the song more. Now I like all of it.
What makes me never able to like "The Ancient" is Howe's shitty slide guitar tone during the opening syncopated bass/tuned percussion sequence. It just sounds awful, disconnected from everything else, like Steve is recording it completely plastered and uncaring. It never fails to give me a headache, and nothing before the "Leaves of Green" bit makes the song any better.
"Arf." -- Frank Zappa, "Beauty Knows No Pain" (live version)
Tales is not middle-of-the-road material. It's definitely unique, so for all of the people who like it, there will be those who dislike it. Makes perfect sense to me. Besides, I've never once stopped liking an album because others don't like it.
Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.
*** Join me in the Garden of Delights for 3 hours of tune-spinning... every Saturday at 5pm EST on Deep Nuggets radio! www.deepnuggets.com ***
Jon said Tales is like a 4 part symphony---first section sets up the piece and has some great themes--second part is more mellow and gets deeper into it----third part is experimental, abstract and challenging---last part sums up the themes and goes for a big finale----I had a classical composer who listened and appreciated it and though the Ancient was a really great piece of avant -garde modern composition.
I remember VERY clearly how I felt about The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway after discovering Genesis with Selling England By The Pound - that album was SO strong that I had gone and bought all the back catalog and digested it all in depth to the Nth degree - way, way before The Lamb showed up. So the sprawling double got compared (and came up EXTREMELY wanting) to SEBTP, with a smattering of tracks holding moments of connection to their glorious past. I think I liked In The Cage, Back IN NYC, and The Colony Of Slippermen and that was it. It took a lifetime for me to grow and appreciate all the subtle nuances on that record like I do now. Tales I accept as what they were reaching for at the time, and as the saying goes, "A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?"
Yeah, one senses that's the Yes piece that would hold up best with serious classical musos. Charles Hazlewood played a pretty large chunk of it in the first installment of his BBC prog radio program.
I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.
I've always thought so too.Nope. It's brilliant and dense, and a pinnacle for Yes. Once you 'know' it, it doesn't 'ramble'. And the best sides are 2 and 3.
Meh, I've heard plenty of challenging and complex music in the years I've been a prog fan, and I don't find either quality in very large supply on Tales. Someone else called it "plodding," and that's a pretty good way to put it. Back in my teens, after discovering Yes, I fell asleep many times listening to that album in bed at night. I was really trying to make it click. Instead, it turned into aural Sominex.
I've heard these elitist attitudes about Tales for years -- that if you don't appreciate it, you're just not "sophisticated" enough to "get it." Whatever. People complain that Tales is the whipping boy for people who hate prog, but it's just as often defended as a supreme pinnacle of rock music by people with their noses up in the air. Honestly, I'm not sure which is more irritating. I'm pretty much with Wakeman -- it has nice moments, but it's padded beyond belief.
Of their '70s output, my least favorite studio albums are Tales and Tormato, and I realized in both cases that it came down to what I felt was a lack of a healthy balance in the music. Where Tales took too few ideas and bled them to death, Tormato took too many ideas and crammed them all in. Neither approach made for a particularly enjoyable listening experience, in my opinion. When Yes struck the right balance, it was magic. For me, the magic has always been missing on Tales. But I'm certainly glad for everyone who finds great enjoyment in it.
One of the most stupid and annoying things that you'll read on a prog forum.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
Here's my in-depth and highly intellectual and incisive review: I truly love Tales.
Sums up my thoughts exactly!!Meh, I've heard plenty of challenging and complex music in the years I've been a prog fan, and I don't find either quality in very large supply on Tales. Someone else called it "plodding," and that's a pretty good way to put it. Back in my teens, after discovering Yes, I fell asleep many times listening to that album in bed at night. I was really trying to make it click. Instead, it turned into aural Sominex.
I've heard these elitist attitudes about Tales for years -- that if you don't appreciate it, you're just not "sophisticated" enough to "get it." Whatever. People complain that Tales is the whipping boy for people who hate prog, but it's just as often defended as a supreme pinnacle of rock music by people with their noses up in the air. Honestly, I'm not sure which is more irritating. I'm pretty much with Wakeman -- it has nice moments, but it's padded beyond belief.
Of their '70s output, my least favorite studio albums are Tales and Tormato, and I realized in both cases that it came down to what I felt was a lack of a healthy balance in the music. Where Tales took too few ideas and bled them to death, Tormato took too many ideas and crammed them all in. Neither approach made for a particularly enjoyable listening experience, in my opinion. When Yes struck the right balance, it was magic. For me, the magic has always been missing on Tales. But I'm certainly glad for everyone who finds great enjoyment in it.
yeah, pastoral.
the Remembering has such a bold emphasis on melody, evidenced by the very sparse drumming, close to six minutes before rhythmic drumming. even with that, most of what remains is more related to fills. it isn't really until the "relayer, all the passion spent on one cross" bit that you get what you might call full on rock drumming.
nothing against drums, the point being that it put the onus on the melodies to carry an entire epic. that's a pretty bold move. if you had a band already iffy on such a sweeping work like tales, you can imagine some severe nail biting on this drumless epic as its creamy center.
Meh, I've heard plenty of challenging and complex music in the years I've been a prog fan, and I don't find either quality in very large supply on Tales. Someone else called it "plodding," and that's a pretty good way to put it. Back in my teens, after discovering Yes, I fell asleep many times listening to that album in bed at night. I was really trying to make it click. Instead, it turned into aural Sominex.
I've heard these elitist attitudes about Tales for years -- that if you don't appreciate it, you're just not "sophisticated" enough to "get it." Whatever. People complain that Tales is the whipping boy for people who hate prog, but it's just as often defended as a supreme pinnacle of rock music by people with their noses up in the air. Honestly, I'm not sure which is more irritating. I'm pretty much with Wakeman -- it has nice moments, but it's padded beyond belief.
Of their '70s output, my least favorite studio albums are Tales and Tormato, and I realized in both cases that it came down to what I felt was a lack of a healthy balance in the music. Where Tales took too few ideas and bled them to death, Tormato took too many ideas and crammed them all in. Neither approach made for a particularly enjoyable listening experience, in my opinion. When Yes struck the right balance, it was magic. For me, the magic has always been missing on Tales. But I'm certainly glad for everyone who finds great enjoyment in it.
No. I'm quite positive that comment will be topped in the future on a prog forum. Have faith. TFTO is like a car that keeps stalling. Speed up. Slow down. Stop. It never gets enough momentum to carry it. Attempting an album like that with a new drummer was one of the worst decisions of Yes' career. And all the love in the universe can't make that album cohesive. And anyone who picks TFTO over Relayer does not realize that Relayer is Alan White's best album performance with Yes to date. THAT is the exact energy that TFTO desperately needed - and never got, even once.
Yes.Sums up my thoughts exactly!!
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