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Thread: Rush: Hold Your Fire

  1. #51
    Hold Your Fire - dug it when it came out in the late 80's and still digging it

  2. #52
    I like this one. Of course it's the pinnacle of the "keyboard era," and as such there's keyboards everywhere, and as such the album's production sounds rather thin and light (compared to the classic and current styles). But yeah, there's lots of musicianship, and some good songwriting. There's one song ("Prime Mover" I think?) where different instruments trade off this motif in a subtle way that I find enjoyable. And I still don't know how Geddy managed to sing and play "Turn the Page" at the same time.

    Compared to Power Windows, I'd say it's the other side of the coin. Power Windows I think is a little punchier, but Hold Your Fire is a bit smoother, rounder. They're much closer in style and sound to each other than anything else in their catalog. If you liked Power Windows, I can't imagine that you wouldn't like this one too.
    flute juice

  3. #53
    Those doinks on That Metal Show do their lists and ALWAYS get them wrong. Take bass riffs, for example, none of them had the top three of all time, in no particular order:

    1. The Enemy Within - Rush
    2. Marathon - Rush
    3. Turn The Page - Rush

    They get all their lists wrong so I shouldn't let it get to me, but those riffs are as good as they get and oh by the freaking way, he's singing something totally different on top of that and doing all kinds of other shit too.

    HYF took me ten years, but I finally got it. Mission chokes me up and it's not even one of my favorites from the album. I wasn't old enough to have been there for Moving Pictures and before, they had already changed by the time I got into high school so I just went with it. They still kicked ass and it was a hell of a lot better than Motley Crue or some such from the eighties. Still, HYF took me a while to really get, maybe because I never saw the HYF tour, that does seem to make a difference in how much I like certain Rush albums.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    Geddy has said it was his most difficult and least-fun tour to do, largely because of the increased workload he had on stage each night coupled with the fact that he was physically ill for a portion of the tour. I'm not sure about the vocal strain aspect but I wouldn't be surprised if that was also a part of it. They had talked about adding a fourth member for live shows for a few tours, but came closest on this one before deciding they didn't want to alter the dynamic and just sucked up the extra workload themselves. I think Alex played more keyboards on this tour than on any other in their history. Stuff like "Turn The Page" was very challenging to play live but I think the tension added a certain something to the performance. A Show Of Hands is an excellent live document IMO (I'm a lifelong Rush fan who loves every album and every era, but the Signals-thru-HYF period is my favourite).

    Interesting also to note Geddy's comments from Beyond The Lighted Stage where he mentions they may have gone too far into 'the middle' of what they do, with kind of a 'jazz tonal' thing. I do think the album contains some of Neil's best lyrics though, and "Time Stand Still" is one that continues to resonate with me, I just love that song. "Force Ten" is an interesting one too, in that they wrote it very quickly at the end of the sessions under a lot of pressure to deliver one more track for the record. It was the first track I ever saw them play live, on the following Presto tour in '90. Thankfully Geddy had lost the coonskin cap hair look.
    I agree with you on the lyrics, Progaton. For some reason, the lyrics of Second Nature are striking a chord with my. Also, love Alex's guitar solo on Open Secrets.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    Agree about Lifeson's excellent rhythm playing. It's highly unique, nobody else sounds like him, at least from a certain point in their career onwards. I think being the guitarist in a three-piece band must cause him to come up with unusually interesting sounds and textures, since he is in charge of both rhythm and melody so often.
    Alex mentioned something in the Beyond The Lighted Stage about having to find his place amongst the synths in '80s Rush. He also made a comment to the effect that he shouldn't have to find his place, because Rush was a rock band and keyboards have no place in rock.

  6. #56
    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    I love Rush, but to me Power Windows was their first weak album since the debut and Hold Your Fire was even worse. To me, both albums are mixed with strong tracks and rather dull 80s pop that didn't seem like Rush to me. The only tracks I like are Force Ten and Mission ... other than that, forget it. I've always thought that if you took the decent songs from PW and combined them with the decent songs from HYF, you'd have a much better album.

    For my tastes, Rush didn't recover from that until Counterparts, but even that proved to be untrue with the string of (in my opinon) subpar releases until Clockwork Angels.
    Last edited by zombywoof; 01-10-2013 at 02:44 AM.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Btw, the liner notes state that a string section and brass was used on the album, but which songs are they featured on?.
    A lot of the string arrangements were dropped from the final mix.

    But...due to a blunder in sourcing master tapes for the recent Sectors box sets, the version of HYF in box 3 is an alternative mix of the album, with the string arrangements more upfront in the mix.

    It's an interesting comparison, but the final mix has the edge, with a bit more presence. Perhaps some enlightened soul will eventually post clips of the sectors-version online, but for the time being stick to your stand-alone cd version.

  8. #58
    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    ^ I'm not a fan of HYF, but I'm intrigued to hear that.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valen View Post
    A lot of the string arrangements were dropped from the final mix.

    But...due to a blunder in sourcing master tapes for the recent Sectors box sets, the version of HYF in box 3 is an alternative mix of the album, with the string arrangements more upfront in the mix.

    It's an interesting comparison, but the final mix has the edge, with a bit more presence. Perhaps some enlightened soul will eventually post clips of the sectors-version online, but for the time being stick to your stand-alone cd version.
    Damn, I wish I would known that sooner. I never got the Sectors box sets. My Mercury Rush cds are the '97 remasters.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Alex mentioned something in the Beyond The Lighted Stage about having to find his place amongst the synths in '80s Rush. He also made a comment to the effect that he shouldn't have to find his place, because Rush was a rock band and keyboards have no place in rock.
    I saw that too. Made me think that Geddy is chief writer, otherwise Geddy would have been the one complaining about space for keyboards among all the guitar parts.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Damn, I wish I would known that sooner. I never got the Sectors box sets. My Mercury Rush cds are the '97 remasters.
    It wasn't publicised at the time, but was discovered as fans went through the box sets and uncovered all sorts of blunders with the mastering.

    Happy to say that the box sets all seem to have the corrected discs now, but as HYF didn't actually have any playback problems, the 'string mix' version was not replaced, making it one of the few Rush comps offering something new and different.

    Is it worth buying the box for? Given the expense, probably not. But the sets are nicely packaged, and the remastering has improved the albums, in some cases notably so (Caress of Steel, Power Windows, Exit Stage Left).

    I'm glad I took a double dip for these.

  12. #62
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    When it was released, I felt HYF was sort of "Power Windows light". It just seemed like a ever so slightly weaker version of the same thing. There ARE a lot of great tracks, but 2 that I can't listen to at all - Tai Shan and High Water. HOWEVER, it smokes what was to follow in the 90s. I didn't buy any of that stuff, except for Different Stages, and that was mostly to get the '77 show from the Odeon. Then they came back STRONG in the 2000s.

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    I got into Rush around Farewll to Kings, and the 70's stuff will always be my favourite, but there's no doubt that HYF & PW are damn fine albums, and compared to most progressively inclined music of the time, they still stand up really well. I thought they went a little rut for a while after HYF, with later releases not really adding anything to what had gone before - still some great songs here & there, just not great albums IMO until they got to S&A, which seemed to recapture a lot of the earlier spirit. The last few tours have been fantastic too.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by gearHed289 View Post
    When it was released, I felt HYF was sort of "Power Windows light". It just seemed like a ever so slightly weaker version of the same thing. There ARE a lot of great tracks, but 2 that I can't listen to at all - Tai Shan and High Water. HOWEVER, it smokes what was to follow in the 90s. I didn't buy any of that stuff, except for Different Stages, and that was mostly to get the '77 show from the Odeon. Then they came back STRONG in the 2000s.
    Agree entirely with this...apart from the fact I didn't hear it until the 2000s. I think it was the first of theirs I heard and I wasn't impressed, not what I wanted from Rush given what I'd read about them.

    Now I've softened to it somewhat, being able to place it within their catalogue. But I think it's really 'Power Windows Mark II', with the guitars even more downplayed in favour of keyboards- as a result I think the band's identity as a 'power trio' is swamped a little. 'Force Ten', 'Mission' and 'Turn The Page' are the highlights for me, and I don't care for the last two songs at all. The rest is good, but to me, not classic. I think 'Power Windows' had better songs overall. In fairness to the band though, I don't see any real fan consensus over what albums are the 'weakest', so quality control clearly remains high even when I don't care for the direction.

    I'm basically happy with the 'Different Stages' set for what they did after, the songs I like of the 90s period are there.

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by gearHed289 View Post
    When it was released, I felt HYF was sort of "Power Windows light". It just seemed like a ever so slightly weaker version of the same thing. There ARE a lot of great tracks, but 2 that I can't listen to at all - Tai Shan and High Water.
    I think the production hurts this album. While Power Windows crackles with energy and the instruments are more in-your-face, Hold Your Fire has a more subdued sound. The real proof is when HYF tracks are played live, how they benefit from the usual Rush aggressive live treatment. HYF tracks sound so much better to me in a live setting. If HYF had been recorded with the same punch and clarity as Power Windows, I believe it would be regarded on an equal plane with that album.
    You say Mega Ultra Deluxe Special Limited Edition Extended Autographed 5-LP, 3-CD, 4-DVD, 2-BlueRay, 4-Cassette, five 8-Track, MP4 Download plus Demos, Outtakes, Booklet, T-Shirt and Guitar Pick Gold-Leafed Box Set Version like it's a bad thing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Agree entirely with this...apart from the fact I didn't hear it until the 2000s. I think it was the first of theirs I heard and I wasn't impressed, not what I wanted from Rush given what I'd read about them.

    Now I've softened to it somewhat, being able to place it within their catalogue. But I think it's really 'Power Windows Mark II', with the guitars even more downplayed in favour of keyboards- as a result I think the band's identity as a 'power trio' is swamped a little. 'Force Ten', 'Mission' and 'Turn The Page' are the highlights for me, and I don't care for the last two songs at all. The rest is good, but to me, not classic. I think 'Power Windows' had better songs overall. In fairness to the band though, I don't see any real fan consensus over what albums are the 'weakest', so quality control clearly remains high even when I don't care for the direction.

    I'm basically happy with the 'Different Stages' set for what they did after, the songs I like of the 90s period are there.
    Funny. I thought that HYF had more guitars that PW.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by iguana View Post
    not to mention his drum roll on 1:06 that introduces the first chorus ... one of my eternally favourite peart moments. thanks for redirecting me to this song! definitely a “lost” RUSH classic, along with “ceiling unlimited” (from the much maligned “vapor trails”) which is equally overlooked.
    Also, some cool bass & guitar that in that track {Open Secrets} that I never noticed before.

  18. #68
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  19. #69
    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that any Rush fan that likes Hold Your Fire is a relative newbie to Rush (who maybe discovered them in 1986/1987 onward).

    I was so, so, extremely disappointed when I picked this up (the first CD I'd ever purchased - all my prior Rush albums were vinyl). It was my first look at the cracks forming in Rush's foundation.

    I do very much like Force Ten and Turn the Page, but this album was the start of my indifference to their material.

  20. #70
    Sorry, I should say that anyone that thinks Hold Your Fire is the best album they've ever done is a Rush newbie.

    No matter - I just think it's pretty amazing to look back on Rush's career and discover people that don't think their best material ended in the early 80's.

    And, ironically, Rush could write country tunes and they'd still be on autobuy for me!

  21. #71
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    ^^^ i always thought Cold Fire (from CP) was a country tune.

    in defense of HYR- it's the type of album that grows on you if you give it a chance. play it once and a while, you'll be surprised.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by BravadoNJ View Post
    ^^^ i always thought Cold Fire (from CP) was a country tune.

    in defense of HYR- it's the type of album that grows on you if you give it a chance. play it once and a while, you'll be surprised.
    HA HA, I'm just now imagining those lyrics sung over a country music background, and yeah it works!
    You say Mega Ultra Deluxe Special Limited Edition Extended Autographed 5-LP, 3-CD, 4-DVD, 2-BlueRay, 4-Cassette, five 8-Track, MP4 Download plus Demos, Outtakes, Booklet, T-Shirt and Guitar Pick Gold-Leafed Box Set Version like it's a bad thing...

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neptune View Post
    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that any Rush fan that likes Hold Your Fire is a relative newbie to Rush (who maybe discovered them in 1986/1987 onward).
    I disagree on two levels. On the personal side, I've been a fan since "Moving Pictures" and I live HYF. Secondly, I don't think many people discovered Rush with HYF. MTV and radio were not big outlets for new Rush by the late '80s.
    Chad

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by BravadoNJ View Post
    ^^^ i always thought Cold Fire (from CP) was a country tune.

    in defense of HYR- it's the type of album that grows on you if you give it a chance. play it once and a while, you'll be surprised.
    I was singing to myself in the car, some early Rush, in a fake Mike Cooley (Drive-By Truckers) accent. I thought it worked quite well.

  25. #75
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    I've had A Show of Hands in the car since I read this thread.

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