I keep remembering Betty Boo. She toured Australia at the height of her popularity. At one point during her Melbourne concert, she dropped the microphone. Oddly, the singing continued, at full volume. Oops! Some sound technician wasn't quick-witted enough...
I don't think her career ever recovered from that incident, blatant proof of lip-synching.
Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-a...re-happy-hour/
Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
I blame Wynton, what was the question?
There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.
I thought that was two guitarists? But yeah, a good example of how to suck the life out of a performance.
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Don't worry, Vic, I do! It's funny, I've been playing music for a living since my early 20s (except for two miserable years I spent in L.A. but let's not talk about that ) and I think I sort of took it for granted. Just about all my friends were musicians I worked with and that was my frame of reference; it never dawned on me that lots of musicians don't do that for a living until I got on discussion forums on the Internet. Granted, some of them don't want to do the kind of work that I do to pay the bills and I understand and respect that. But many have actually told me that they envy the fact that I play music for a living. So I've learned that it's somewhat unusual and despite my griping, I appreciate that I'm lucky enough to be able to do it.
Well, that's the crux of what I was bitching about. I accept technology as a natural progression too; in fact in many cases, I embrace it. And I have no problem playing with a click track and sequencers AS NEEDED. I just feel that they should enhance what the band is physically playing, not the other way around. In that band I played with the other night, there were so many unnecessary pre-made tracks that I didn't feel as if what I was playing was necessary 3/4ths of the time and I'm not used to that. I'm used to playing parts that are crucial to the tune at hand, being the only electric guitar player in the bands I'm in.
You're right, I WILL say the amp, however... I don't use one with the wedding/corporate party band I play with; I use a Pod HD500 (floor unit) and go directly to the board. It's not my preference, but the band leader wanted to get rid of amps on stage. It took me a while, but I've gotten used to it and I think I'm pretty good at programming those things (I should be; I've spent countless hours tweaking Line 6 products). The thing I really miss about having an amp on stage is the interaction between it and the guitar.
But I don't think guitar sounds have really changed that drastically through the years. I can get by with just 5 patches: clean, semi-dirt, metalish power chord/riff sound, a saturated lead sound and a faux jazz guitar sound. Of course all of those patches have about 5 effects that I can toggle on and off. And I couldn't get by with a guitar that doesn't have both single coil and humbucker pickups.
For the past decade, the majority of my work has been with Gary Sinise and the Lt. Dan Band and I do use an amp on those gigs. They're rented because we're almost always on the road and we're not big enough to have a semi or two transporting gear. What's fun for me is that I'm using a Mesa/Boogie half stack. I've never owned a 4x12 speaker cabinet before and they sound great! Still, I HAVE to have a three channel amp and I bring my Line 6 M13, a "virtual" pedal board for effects.
Now the material that band plays isn't much different than what wedding/corporate party bands play, but it's a whole different deal because our bass player is a Hollywood celebrity and the shows are concerts on big stages. We're not the hired help; we're the attraction and crowds generally go wild over us. BTW, we don't use any click tracks or sequencers with that band, except for on The Who's "Baba O'Riley," which we have to play of course; it's the theme song from CSI:NY, a television series Gary starred in and co-produced for almost a decade. Then again, it's a 12 piece band and we've got five singers (one plays acoustic guitar and another one plays violin), two horn players, drums, percussion, bass guitar, keyboards and me (electric guitar), so we can cover a lot.
Well, a "tribute band" has to have the look of the band they're paying tribute to, which disqualifies me, a 5'6, 140 lbs, myopic bald geezer. I have been in three bands that played the music of one band exclusively: a Hendrix band, a Steely Dan Band and a Gentle Giant band. None of them tried to have the look and none of them made money; it was strictly for fun. Still, I'd get burned out pretty quickly if I had to play one band's music all the time.
While DJs have taken over a good portion of the work musicians used to do, I have nothing against them personally and I understand the necessity for them. Wedding/corporate party bands are expensive, for starters!
I feel the same way, but a lot of people don't.
Last edited by No Pride; 04-20-2015 at 04:55 PM.
Forgot to mention that Zeppelin tribute show I saw that did No Quarter, did a very long, jammy version of the song. It was very loose and heavy.
yup
This I totally get......Understand that Im just speaking what I said earlier as just an objective opinion....I accept and embrace technology because I have to (that, coupled with the fact that I am also a vocalist, and the fact that I am also one of those 'musical encyclopedia' guys that can play or fake my way through a kajillion songs, is usually what gets me first-calls) but not necessarily what i personally want to do. Thats the difference and I think is really the key underlying element here....You and I do what we do as "golden handcuffs": I get personally offended when I have been labeled a musical whore - this is bullshit: playing bass is my job.
Many guitar parts on modern pop and dance music were taken from some sample library and could have been recorded years ago. When these parts were originally recorded, the studio guitarist plays with a specific attack designed for the tracks they originally recorded to. Because of this, when a producer pulls guitar parts from a sample library, the attack of the guitar for his project is usually a lil off - harder or softer - because the parts werent originally done for the feel of his/her track. I hear these anomolies with guitar in some modern pop tunes. Various compressor hard/soft settings can usually aid to microscoping these parts to exactness when reproducing them live.
However, For the record: Even though I understand this, I would rather play with a guitar player that feels the song the way he wants to -- so I dont really give two shits if his sound and parts are exactly correct. Just nail the signature parts and go. In a perfect world for me: I would rather have fun, lock in with good players all giving/taking eye contact, lay things down phat and take liberties in songs if they can be called for without worrying how "exact" we are to a songs arrangement or sound -- If a band wakes up onstage and goes places, the audience usually hangs on for the ride. We do some of that in my Corporate band and it keeps us all sane and counterbalances all the other human-sequencing songs we do ver batim.
Mesas are the shizznit ! I like Dumballs for guitar too....and Dr Z's
Last edited by klothos; 04-20-2015 at 08:46 PM.
Nah c'mon mang, spill the beans......(except for two miserable years I spent in L.A. but let's not talk about that
See, now that's the way it used to be on those kind of gigs and that's what I'm lamenting now. We weren't drastically rearranging tunes in those days; just opening them up for some interpretation and allowing the musicians the opportunity to inject some personality of their own into them. With a band of good, simpatico players, startlingly cool stuff could come out of that. When I was in that band that now uses too many pre-made tracks, we would do a lot of that sort of thing. For example, while repeating the chorus at the end of "Brown Eyed Girl," I started playing these three note arpeggios ala Steve Howe in "Yours is No Disgrace" and the bass player followed my lead and began playing inversions of the tune's chords, like Chris Squire often did; we turned a Van Morrison tune into a Yes song! People still recognized and danced to it. You just can't get away with that kind of shit anymore. Sigh...
There's really not much to tell, Vic. When I turned 30, I decided to move to Los Angeles (where far more musical opportunities existed) and finally "make it." I left a 5-night-a-week gig with a great cover band and a woman I was in love with to do it. I just thought, "it's now or never!" Well, I found out that the music scene there operated in a very different way than the one in Chicago did and I was a fish out of water. The scene in Chicago then was very much a "word of mouth" situation; if people liked your playing, they'd recommend you to other band leaders and musicians and all you had to do was be accountable and play good and work would find you. In L.A., I found that you have to network your ass off; something that I never had to do previously and didn't know how to do. I mean, I'm a sociable guy with a non-abrasive personality, but I'm not a self-promoter. I had no skills in the fine art of "tasteful bragging;" you know, striking that perfect balance between cockiness and humility. But there's SO many great guitar players there that you have to be competitive and have something else going on besides your musical skills. And people there were more impressed by who you know (and have worked with) than how well you played, at least that was my impression. So after my savings ran out in 6 months, I took a day job; something I hadn't done sine I was 19 years old. I became a full-time telephone solicitor. Of course, my "layman schedule" now made it even harder to hang in clubs and try to network. Meanwhile, my girl back home got tired of waiting for me and dumped me. I did the phone sales thing full time for a year and a half and finally got enough money together to move back to Chicago, where I immediately became a musician again.
No regrets. If I hadn't tried, I would've always wondered what would've happened. And I gained a newfound appreciation for the kind of musician work I'd been doing. Not only that, but the beautiful girl who dumped me is as big as a house today.
The few times I've been in band situations one of things that used to really make me wanna just quit was hearing the leaders of these groups say during rehearsals, ..... but that's not how it sounds on the record. Whatever bands I've played in, whether it's percussion in a latin/jazz combo, or guitar in a little church group, I'd always hear those words come out of someone's mouth during rehearsals. I mean, c'mon we weren't professionals (well, the percussion gigs were sort of professional) with virtuoso players (far from it), so if we attempted to cover a song that was a little tricky in spots I'd say let's try something a little different instead of trainwrecking on stage. And of course someone would say ..."but it's not like that on the record." I'd imagine Ernie, that you've experienced the same several times in your career.
You gave it a shot. There was a time in the mid 70s where I was getting pretty good as a percusionist and I was starting to get known a little. Two percussionists who play with Santana (Karl Perazzo, Raul Rekow) were guys I hung around with in San Francisco. I was good but I just didn't have the attitude and stage presence, so I sort of thought about doing session work. Problem was I didn't have a clue where to start. I kind of thought I had to move to NYC (the epicenter of latin/jazz and salsa), but I just wasn't willing to consider it too seriously. I would've been chewed up and spit out with all the competition in that town. Anyway, I just didn't have the personality for it. Karl did well of course. We all knew he would make it. I'd say a steady gig with Santana (for many, many years) is "making it."There's really not much to tell, Vic. When I turned 30, I decided to move to Los Angeles (where far more musical opportunities existed) and finally "make it." I left a 5-night-a-week gig with a great cover band and a woman I was in love with to do it. I just thought, "it's now or never!" Well, I found out that the music scene there operated in a very different way than the one in Chicago did and I was a fish out of water. The scene in Chicago then was very much a "word of mouth" situation; if people liked your playing, they'd recommend you to other band leaders and musicians and all you had to do was be accountable and play good and work would find you. In L.A., I found that you have to network your ass off; something that I never had to do previously and didn't know how to do. I mean, I'm a sociable guy with a non-abrasive personality, but I'm not a self-promoter. I had no skills in the fine art of "tasteful bragging;" you know, striking that perfect balance between cockiness and humility. But there's SO many great guitar players there that you have to be competitive and have something else going on besides your musical skills. And people there were more impressed by who you know (and have worked with) than how well you played, at least that was my impression. So after my savings ran out in 6 months, I took a day job; something I hadn't done sine I was 19 years old. I became a full-time telephone solicitor. Of course, my "layman schedule" now made it even harder to hang in clubs and try to network. Meanwhile, my girl back home got tired of waiting for me and dumped me. I did the phone sales thing full time for a year and a half and finally got enough money together to move back to Chicago, where I immediately became a musician again.
No regrets. If I hadn't tried, I would've always wondered what would've happened. And I gained a newfound appreciation for the kind of musician work I'd been doing. Not only that, but the beautiful girl who dumped me is as big as a house today.
I'm one of those guys in a cover band that gets kind of anal about trying to get the sounds and licks of the album... I tend to treat it as a mental exercise most of the time. That's usually just for top-40 stuff though; the older 70s rock is easier to put a personal spin on and people won't care.
For me, it depends on the song: There are some songs that need to be covered ver batim as the entire integrity of the song relies on a specific arrangement, timbre choices, and note placement -- plus, its important for us to remember that we get hired because we cover these so well....But there are many others, like "Mustang Sally", "Play That Funky Music", "Old Time Rock and Roll", 'Thank You For Lettin Me Be Mice Elf", "Brown Eyed Girl", etc, almost any 12-Bar shuffle or I-IV-V boogie (such as "Keep Your Hands To Yourself"), etc where the integrity of the song is really just in the hook or in the melody line. These are the ones that can be easily expanded: If we have a full dancefloor, I am apt to extend "Thank You For Lettin Me Be Myself": I often break it down, do a silly call and response rap with the audience ("Throw Your Hands In The Air, Wave 'Em Like You Just Dont Care"..."the Roof is On Fire....etc) and then break into a slap bass solo, or trade solos back and forth with the guitarist, or give the guitarist one, or however the hell Im feeling it*....Its fun for both us and the audience to recognize which songs we can get away with this..................Not only are these songs "no-brainers", but I find it a waste of time and energy to rehearse songs like Old Time RnR, Mustang sally, or Change In My Pocket Going Jinga-linga-ling............
*although I am, for the most part, the onstage musical director, I leave traffic direction in a song up to the vocalist singing the song...... I sing "Thank You" so I direct the traffic, but our guitarist also sings and will direct traffic as well on his songs, and one of our female singers sometimes will direct traffic in a few of her songs that we may interject improv such as "Chain Of Fools"....I leave the choice to the vocalist singing the song and their ability to read the crowd
Last edited by klothos; 04-21-2015 at 08:18 PM.
I’m reminded of that Pure Reason Revolution performance at one of the NEARFests. When the bass player set her instrument down, the bass kept on playing.
Reminds me of those people who play big bucks for that specific model of Lowrey organ so they can get the exact sound Pete Townshend got on “Baba O’Riley.” Isn’t that kind of missing the point?
God, this thread is depressing the s%$# out of me! I’d like to get back into music, but part of me asks, what’s the point? I could never be in a corporate/wedding band, so many of the songs people request would have me saying, “I hate that song...I hate that song...I hate that song...”
Confirmed Bachelors: the dramedy hit of 1883...
By the way, just so I can verify everything Ive posted in this thread so far:
Thats me on the left with the silly hat (playing the same bass in my avatar, too ). My keyboard rig to my right (your left) SY-35 synth for synth bass on top - the bottom keyboard is a Korg PS-60 because there are a few songs that I play L-Hand Bass/ R. Hand Keys on...this ability also contributes to not having to sequence certain songs because we have a lot of keyboard power at our disposal...the laptop is out of the shot and is to the stage right (your left) of my keys. It has recently been replaced with a Windows Pad....The drummer, as Ive mentioned, plays D-Drums and his Roland R-8 is to his left (cant see it in the pic) next to a small 4-ch mixer that he also uses to recieve the seq click....The guy on the right is our new keyboard player that doubles on sax and flute as I mentioned earlier....The girl on the left is a dynamite fantastic female singer whose vocal ability will put goose-bumps on your arms - shes a vocal powerhouse and she is also the one who knows how to improv.....Although this isnt a great picture of the blonde, trust me when I tell you she is quite the babe (and that usually aids in breaking the ice for a certain demographic of future clients ) and shes a decent singer, too. We can get up to 5 part harmony. The picture is the only recent one of the core-band with the new keyboard player that I can show in a live setting but we do add horns or other pieces as needed/budget/client and have been up to 10-pieces or more on those higher $$ gigs
Last edited by klothos; 04-21-2015 at 09:09 PM.
part of the choice of making a decision to be a pro musician is recognizing that clients hire you: they are the boss just as people often have superiors at almost any other job - Its not about what I want but about what they want. With that said, the fun part is being able to interject some of "me" throughout the night just for sanity's sake
Nah, I could use any old organ sample as the basis for that sound. The obsessing comes in processing it with three envelope filters- the one that acts as the repeater, the one that modulates the attack on the notes and the slower one that would sweep the filter ANd that's the thing; if you're going to play a cover like that, as a keyboard player at least there's not much to contribute, the mental challenge for me is in really f-king nailing that sound. Because otherwise you're just a schmuck playing someone else's music.
(I was thinking of Won't Get Fooled Again, sorry. Baba is a whole different thing...)
!^^^^^^!I shudder to think what the playlists are like at some same-sex weddings.Lesbians, oddly, seem to have reasonable tastes in music; I even knew a lesbian who was into Yes (this was in the 70s) and had Roger Dean posters on her office wall. Gay men are a different matter.
I've got some very good gay friends, two of whom I went to high school with. Every damn one hits the music stereotype square on the head. The lesbians are somewhat better. Last big corporation I worked for my director was openly gay and she was into rock and had great taste in beer. Of course a few others ladies in comfortable shoes I know are way too much into Indigo Girls/Cinder Calhoun well-intentioned but totally boring acoustic guitar driven bullshit. The men though are far worse. Fucking show tunes, the worst dance music this side of the planet, Madonna/Cher/and every other fucking diva, fucking show tunes.
Years ago my wife, I, and a gay friend of our were at an outdoor 4th of July concert with a local orchestra. A guy who grew up in the city came back to sing with the orchestra, some classical pieces, one or two standards. This singer was talking to the crowd between numbers and he was coming off somewhere on the swish scale as just to the right of Richard Simmons. I glared at our friend. "Look, this doesn't mean he's going to do show tunes," he said. Very next thing out of the singer's mouth, "well with an orchestra like this I just can't RESIST doing a couple show tunes." I'm doing a hari kari motion out on the grass, our friend is doubling over in hysterics, my wife is pretending like she just doesn't know us.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
I guess it all depends on what level you're playing at. My band isn't really at a professional level by any means, but we do try to make sure we're covering the important/signature parts of the songs we do. We will still end up making it sound like "us" no matter how hard we try to get all those parts down.
There is another local band I've seen that seems to get plenty of work and even with two guitar players they don't cover a lot of what I'd consider critical elements of the song. It's just two guys playing bar chords all night. But apparently most people don't mind as long as they recognize the melody and lyrics. The drummer has the most beautiful shiny expensive DW kit...but is one of the worst drummers I've seen in a steadily gigging band.
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Exactly. In some ways, it's like any other day job; you have to do things you'd prefer not to. You just say "I hate that song" (to yourself) one time and move on. My current favorite song to hate is "Blurred Lines." It's two chords and the rhythm guitar part is exactly the same as what you play on a polka. But people love that song; what can you do?! I compartmentalize the music I play for fun and the music I play for money. I try to play my best on both, but I'm not emotionally invested in the latter. That's work and the fun stuff is recreational... and helps you maintain a good attitude about the work stuff.
I don't think I've played a bar chord since I was 14. They're just not a great choice as far as chord voicings go and they sound horrible with a distortion sound. But I suppose they're good for certain kinds of music (that I never play).
Last edited by No Pride; 04-22-2015 at 12:15 PM.
I miss house bands and wedding/corporate party bands. Just always fun when the handful of folks from accounts payable get wasted on sangrias and jello shots and then think they are Steven Tyler by trying to sing with the band...
"Alienated-so alien I go!"
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