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Thread: Swans?

  1. #1
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    Swans?

    So…..I have seen this band mentioned here before and have been curious about them. Their 2014 release “To Be Kind” is the top rated progressive rock album for the year on Rate Your Music, so I thought, what the hell, I will pick it up. After listening to the whole 2 disc set twice I am still not sure if I like them or not. Parts of it I find myself really getting into, but then other spots I am thinking…….I really don’t like this at all. The jury is still out for me on this band as I have to give this some more listens. Curious what others think of this band?

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    I heard various tracks off "To Be Kind" at the time of release, because it was the week's featured album on the community radio station. I didn't like it much, but I can understand why they would appeal to some members here.

    I also remember thinking it was a very poorly chosen band name for the type of music. "Swans" suggests something soft, flowing and melodic, which is not how I would describe their music.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post
    I heard various tracks off "To Be Kind" at the time of release, because it was the week's featured album on the community radio station. I didn't like it much, but I can understand why they would appeal to some members here.

    I also remember thinking it was a very poorly chosen band name for the type of music. "Swans" suggests something soft, flowing and melodic, which is not how I would describe their music.
    Agreed......"soft, flowing and melodic" this ain't. Some of it reminds me of bands like Guapo, some reminds me of post rock bands like Mogawi, some just sounds like they take one idea and then beat it into the ground. Apparently they have been around a long time, but I had never heard of them until the last year or so.

  4. #4
    Parrots Ripped My Flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post
    "Swans" suggests something soft, flowing and melodic

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    Subterranean Tapir Hobo Chang Ba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post
    I heard various tracks off "To Be Kind" at the time of release, because it was the week's featured album on the community radio station. I didn't like it much, but I can understand why they would appeal to some members here.
    Interesting...because I'm still unsure why this band has latched onto some of the prog minded crowd.
    Please don't ask questions, just use google.

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  6. #6
    I'm following them since the beginning. One of the rare bands with a vision and a real skullcrusher on stage!

    Best albums of their discography:

    Children of God (1987)
    The Seer (2012)
    Cop (1984)
    Greed (1986)
    White Light from the Mouth of Infinity (1991)
    To Be Kind (2014)
    Last edited by spacefreak; 04-15-2015 at 02:05 AM.
    Macht das ohr auf!

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    Quote Originally Posted by spacefreak View Post
    I'm following them since the beginning. One of the rare bands with a vision and a real skullcrusher on stage!
    How does "To Be Kind" compare to their older stuff?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    How does "To Be Kind" compare to their older stuff?
    If you are not into the noisier most "industrialized" stuff, avoid the series of albums that preceeded Children of God (their 1st phase). To Be Kind has a twisted bluesy -somewhat Beefheartian- influence that started with their 3rd phase at My Father Will Guide Me up a Rope to the Sky. 2nd phase is haunting and more hypnotic, with the introduction of acoustic instruments. Their more normal sounding record is the rather tender and almost dark wave sounding The Burning World.

    I'll try and summarise:

    1st phase (noisy)
    Filth
    Cop
    Greed

    ---transitional album---
    Holy Money

    2nd phase (dark/hypnotic)
    Children of God
    The Burning World
    White Light from the Mouth of Infinity
    Love of Life

    ---transitional album---
    The Great Annihilator
    Soundtracks for the Blind

    3rd phase (aggressively bluesy/grandiosly hypnotic) -the reformation albums
    My Father Will Guide Me Up a Rope to the Sky
    The Seer
    To Be Kind
    Macht das ohr auf!

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post
    it was a very poorly chosen band name for the type of music. "Swans" suggests something soft, flowing and melodic, which is not how I would describe their music.
    But you admit to not even knowing their music! And you're speaking of a multi-legendary rock band at large here - not within "prog" but as such; a Project donning dozens of releases that started during the very early 80s no-wave movement in New York and has influenced practically thousands of artists in music, poetry and literature, sonic sculpture etc. Wouldn't it be wise to at least check out a minimum of background information before coming to one's own "conclusion"? One hardly wants to be the one who checks from Tom Clancy to Nabokov, right? There's still a whole damn LOT to be learned about rock music - for each and every one of us. And believe me, the way in which Michael Gira sees the swan makes his various musical approaches utterly comprehensible.

    Here's a thread: http://www.progressiveears.org/forum...ighlight=Swans

    And here's just a little of my own contribution there: [...] their latest installment pretty much perfects the concept that was initially brought on with the '95-97 lineup which released Soundtracks for the Blind. I witnessed both of those tours - and they were shellshocking; when I caught them again here in Oslo in November 2012, very little had diminished during that interim of 15 long years. Swans, to my ears and emotions, are a monumental force in the post-punk paradigmatic world of rock music.

    Their run can be roughly sorted in five stages, I think; first the purely "no-wave" noise onslaught of the '82-84 period (with Filth and Cop), then from '85 the still industrially charged but somewhat more refined stage of Holy Money etc, followed by the art-folkish era (which culminated in the mass production of The Burning World), then their "indie-rock" period (Love of Life etc.) and finally the one they're in today as enhanced from approx. 1994.

    And this is *ALL* worth checking out, if you ask me.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  10. #10
    No love for Soundtracks For The Blind?
    The Sound is my favourite Swans tune.
    Incidentally, Michael Gira picked the name because he wanted something that was both beautiful and dangerous if I remember correctly.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kavus Torabi View Post
    No love for Soundtracks For The Blind?
    The Sound is my favourite Swans tune.
    Incidentally, Michael Gira picked the name because he wanted something that was both beautiful and dangerous if I remember correctly.
    It's a great album and a definite return to form after a somewhat patchy Great Annihilator, which is in my opinion the least necessary Swans album to date.
    Macht das ohr auf!

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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kavus Torabi View Post
    No love for Soundtracks For The Blind?
    The Sound is my favourite Swans tune.
    Incidentally, Michael Gira picked the name because he wanted something that was both beautiful and dangerous if I remember correctly.
    Last paragraph: true - that's the story. "The Sound" is great, and I love Soundtracks for the Blind, by which Swans were effectively able to sneak through the perimeters of the then still fresh "post-rock" without even their own fans noticing it.

    My very fave Swans asset is the Failure/Animus EP, containing what I deem as their two most powerful tracks altogether. This is some of the most sombre lyrical 'rock' ever made, yet there are worlds to be learnt just from these two songs alone.

    And I agree with you, Spyros, that The Great Annihilator was patchy. It had "Blood Promise" and very little else.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    But you admit to not even knowing their music! ....
    I made no claim to being familiar with their entire catalogue. I said I heard a few tracks off one album, which I did, and that the band name did not seem to suit the music. Other forum members seemed to have no problem with that observation, so please stop attacking me.

  14. #14
    I dont know too many albums but my favs are "My Father Will Guide Me Up a Rope to the Sky" and "White Light from the Mouth of Infinity".
    Dont have anything after "My Father", guess this needs to be remedied
    BTW they are great live, albeit a bit too noisy so some of the details disappear.

  15. #15
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    I have the last two and like them, the Guapo, Mogwai comparison makes some sense. I will certainly be exploring them further.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post
    I made no claim to being familiar with their entire catalogue. I said I heard a few tracks off one album, which I did, and that the band name did not seem to suit the music. Other forum members seemed to have no problem with that observation, so please stop attacking me.
    I didn't "attack" you - and I certainly don't have a habit of "attacking" you either, if that's what you're implying. I made a point towards your input on a discussion forum dealing in information, music and thoughts on music and information, and a tip to where you'd might read more about an artist whose general reputation in rock music exceeds 4/5 of other names usually mentioned in here - if that's at all interesting. And I dug up a thread for your benefit.
    Last edited by Scrotum Scissor; 04-15-2015 at 07:22 AM.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    I didn't "attack" you - and I certainly don't have a habit of "attacking" you either, if that's what you're implying. I made a point towards your input on a discussion forum dealing in information, music and thoughts on music and information, and a tip to where you'd might read more about an artist whose general reputation in rock music exceeds 4/5 of other names usually mentioned in here - if that's at all interesting. And I dug up a thread for your benefit.
    OK - but it's hard to read sentences like " Wouldn't it be wise to at least check out a minimum of background information before coming to one's own "conclusion"?" without it seeming like a put-down. I repeat, I did not make a "conclusion", I made an observation. And what do you mean by saying "One hardly wants to be the one who checks from Tom Clancy to Nabokov, right? "?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post
    it's hard to read sentences like " Wouldn't it be wise to at least check out a minimum of background information before coming to one's own "conclusion"?" without it seeming like a put-down. I repeat, I did not make a "conclusion", I made an observation. And what do you mean by saying "One hardly wants to be the one who checks from Tom Clancy to Nabokov, right? "?
    The essence of answer to your first sentence would lay in my initial response. Swans are a very well known band with a substantial reputation in alternative rock culture running now for 30+ years, whereas, say, someone like Porcupine Tree are not. The reason for Swans' name befitting their music is well established. But in a Place like PE, this still gets to be a topic of wonder. Ok. Let's fix it with an ounce of information - and a poignant argument to serve as illustration. In other Words; if you'd known their music, and if you acquaintance yourself with it - then you'd might see that reason yourself. And then information follows. Presumably, it's read as well. And then perhaps there's that "a-ha", they do NOT see the swan as something soft and cozy?

    The Clancy versus Nabokov analogy was merely such an illustration.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kavus Torabi
    No love for Soundtracks For The Blind?
    This is my favorite Swans album. Absolutely devastating! One thing I always enjoyed about them is how they take this whole tiresome "tension and release" formula and strip it off the latter part completely. In the Swans world (or, rather, in their best songs), it's all just tension, which builds and builds and builds, with basically no release in sight. Their music since the reformation has been all about this, and attending their show on "My Father..." tour was a revelatory experience*, spiritual rather than purely musical.

    *Curiously, when I went to see them again on "The Fear" tour, I did not get nearly the same mileage out of the show. Maybe miracles like that only happen once?
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor
    a-ha
    Yeah, another good band

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Levgan View Post
    *Curiously, when I went to see them again on "The Fear" tour, I did not get nearly the same mileage out of the show. Maybe miracles like that only happen once?
    Hmmm... I have seen them several times since the mid-80s and I always manifested this insanely unmercyfull building of tension that resulted into the cathartic silence at the end of the gig. One of the best live bands I ever experienced.

    WORLD OF SKIN (Gira+Jarboe) is another recommendation. More intimate and venomous in places.
    Macht das ohr auf!

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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Levgan View Post
    Absolutely devastating! One thing I always enjoyed about them is how they take this whole tiresome "tension and release" formula and strip it off the latter part completely. In the Swans world (or, rather, in their best songs), it's all just tension, which builds and builds and builds, with basically no release in sight. [...] spiritual rather than purely musical.

    Yeah, another good band
    Gira's vision With Swans - be it sonically or "merely" lyrically - was always akin to an audio s/m session. I remember Jarboe also admitting to being into actual (and presumably somewhat advanced) s/m back in the day, when they'd have a generally menacing stage appearance with all members posing their muscle and scarry corpuses during those insane noise orgies that made out their earliest string of albums. Records like Greed and Cop are still amongst the most sonically radical rock titles ever.

    A-ha folded some four years back and declared that they would "never be heard from again". Only to have them reform this year for a tour of South-America and a New, uhm, album.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  22. #22
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavus Torabi View Post
    Incidentally, Michael Gira picked the name because he wanted something that was both beautiful and dangerous if I remember correctly.
    "Beautiful to look at but actually a vile, horrible thing", is somewhat closer to original explanation.
    Steve F.

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  23. #23
    I missed Swans at Big Ears (dammit), but I do enjoy their stuff. For my tastes, Seer and Soundtracks for the Blind are my favorites. I also dig Body Lovers/Body Haters, although I don't revisit it so often.

    There's a new semi-related release that might interest folks here, a collab between Jarboe and Helen Money: https://auroraborealisrecordings.ban...oe-helen-money

    "Legend of underground music Jarboe joins forces with visionary cellist Helen Money (aka Alison Chesley) to create what is probably the most beautiful release in the label's history. While still a "heavy" record in many ways, Chesley's cello looming massive and distorted over much of the proceedings, there are moments of transcendent beauty with Jarboe's ethereal vocal and piano work soaring above the drones, reaching for the beyond."

    I got it recently and rather like it...very dark, very cool.
    If you're actually reading this then chances are you already have my last album but if NOT and you're curious:
    https://battema.bandcamp.com/

    Also, Ephemeral Sun: it's a thing and we like making things that might be your thing: https://ephemeralsun.bandcamp.com

  24. #24
    ^^ [Steve F.]

    Yes, and this fits SO much of Gira's music - being often majestic and even harmonically serene at times while sporting words and moods signalling (more than actually describing) decay, depravity, insanity, dissociation, disintegration and the immense hopelessness of existential determination. However, the guy still has a most formal perception of and attitude towards his own work - he's not one to purvey an image of himself as necessarily "transcendent" in character. This gets very clear cut when reading interviews with Gira; you're dealing with an enlightened and aesthetically highly self-conscious fella who's indeed NOT a G.G. Allin or Varg Vikernes or even Diamanda Galas.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  25. #25
    Dammit, now I'm intrigued. I've heard of Swans and they get namechecked a lot as an influence.

    So here's where I stand: I'm close to being a completist with ISIS and have quite a bit of Neurosis' discography I also have stuff by bands like Agalloch, Zebulon Pike, Red Sparowes and Pelican, although they may not be in the same ballpark as Swans.

    Would Swans work for me, and which of their phases should I investigate first?

    (And also, if I may mediate between Bob and Scrotum: Scrotum, I think your response to Bob was bit harsh, given that his post was more of the "not for me, but I can see why people like 'em" variety. Bob, I don't think Scrotum was attacking you, but his response was more along the lines of being frustrated that a lot of people claim to be open-minded about music but don't really venture out of the comfort zone. I could be misinterpreting, or there may be bad blood from other threads, but I suggest we shake hands, buy each other a drink and move on.

    Jeff

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