Swans?

[Steve F.]

So here's where I stand: I'm close to being a completist with ISIS and have quite a bit of Neurosis' discography I also have stuff by bands like Agalloch, Zebulon Pike, Red Sparowes and Pelican, although they may not be in the same ballpark as Swans.

Would Swans work for me, and which of their phases should I investigate first?

I think the latest one, To Be Kind, would.

I haven't heard the really early, grindy stuff in decades and don't remember it and don't know what I would think of it now. I didn't like it then, but that was a long time ago.

[spacefreak]

So here's where I stand: I'm close to being a completist with ISIS and have quite a bit of Neurosis' discography I also have stuff by bands like Agalloch, Zebulon Pike, Red Sparowes and Pelican, although they may not be in the same ballpark as Swans.
Jeff

Swans are a completely different beast from all these bands you mention. They do not play with tensions -they impose them. Get "Children of God" i.m.o.

[Scrotum Scissor]

They do not play with tensions -they impose them.

That's actually one of the most eloquent descriptions I've heard of Swans' musical effect! Kudos!

Re: "liking" early Swans. It was mostly about sonic extremes with incentives of stageing an experience of discomfort through the conjunction of violent sound, tormenting verbal messages (as in "vocals") and that incendiary atmosphere arising from their very audio presence. Filth remains one of the dirtiest and nastiest debut albums of all time, precisely because there were NO redeeming efforts at communication of subtle impressions - this was sheer brutalist art in the form of "rock music essence" and thus a show of force. Ugly, disturbing and ultimately unforgettable. I don't listen to it very often, but when I do I get in a particular mood (or I'm indeed seeking to soothe an already existing mood by putting it on) - and it's neither "good" nor "bad", it's just meditative and, uh, quite Zen. Of course, by the time of World of Skin or The Burning World and Love of Life etc., Gira's musical delivery had gone from meditative to highly contemplative - a tune like "Failure" very much illustrating this.

[polmico]

But you admit to not even knowing their music! And you're speaking of a multi-legendary rock band at large here - not within "prog" but as such

Well, the question was posed on a Prog Rock website. Far more people here listen to (and would prefer to listen to) Genesis and Yes than Swans. I have asked questions on this site about bands like Swans and Dinosaur Jr. and Sonic Youth and Minutemen and a whole bunch of other stuff that isn't Prog in any kind of way. I wouldn't expect the guys who really dig just classic prog and classic rock in general to dig any of those bands. I know this is Prog Rock site (in the Genesis/Yes definition of it) but with a bunch of guys like you, Kavus, Chalkpie (Frank), NogbadThebad (Ian) and--well, too many to name--who know more about music than I and can help me sort some of these bands out. Like you say:

There's still a whole damn LOT to be learned about rock music - for each and every one of us.

And that makes this site a great resource.

What I love about PE is I can have a conversation about Big Big Train (whom I never would've discovered without this site) in one thread with one group of people and a conversation about Cardiacs (whom I never would've discovered without this site) with a bunch of other folks. Man, it's all just music to me at the end of the day (which is a statement I've heard in these types of threads many times), and I don't really care how it's defined.

Bob might've not heard the tender side of Swans. Maybe post some vids for him? This one kills me every time especially as I know the destruction that is coming in right behind it:


Cheers and thanks for turning me (and others) onto a lot of really cool music!

[SteveSly]

Well, the question was posed on a Prog Rock website. Far more people here listen to (and would prefer to listen to) Genesis and Yes than Swans. I have asked questions on this site about bands like Swans and Dinosaur Jr. and Sonic Youth and Minutemen and a whole bunch of other stuff that isn't Prog in any kind of way. [/video]

Cheers and thanks for turning me (and others) onto a lot of really cool music!

I don't want to get into an "is this prog" argument, but the reason I found about this album in the first place was (as I mentioned in the original post), if you type in 2014 ratings for "progressive rock" on Rate Your Music ( http://rateyourmusic.com/ ) "To Be Kind" has the #1 rating for the year. Some people obviously consider this to be a prog rock release.

[mellotron storm]

I don't want to get into an "is this prog" argument, but the reason I found about this album in the first place was (as I mentioned in the original post), if you type in 2014 ratings for "progressive rock" on Rate Your Music ( http://rateyourmusic.com/ ) "To Be Kind" has the #1 rating for the year. Some people obviously consider this to be a prog rock release.

On Prog Archives it was voted 4th best album of 2014.

[polmico]

Well, what do I know? Prog Rock it is!

(It is, though, a great album whatever it's called, and if you get a chance, go see them live. I'm so glad I did last summer!)

[NogbadTheBad]

On Prog Archives it was voted 4th best album of 2014.

It was just outside my top 10 on the PA poll.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Well, what do I know? Prog Rock it is!

It's relatively new and it's prog, so we'll call it neo-prog!!

[at least 100 dead]

"Swans" suggests something soft, flowing and melodic, which is not how I would describe their music.

Swans are birds and birds are really dinosaurs. Fact!

Bob might've not heard the tender side of Swans. Maybe post some vids for him?

"In My Garden" (from the Children of God album) is a fantastic, tranquil tune. Unfortunately, when you look for it on youtube you get:

[at least 100 dead]

One reporter's opinion:

Ten Great Songs by Swans 2.0

[bob_32_116]

Dammit, now I'm intrigued. I've heard of Swans and they get namechecked a lot as an influence.

So here's where I stand: I'm close to being a completist with ISIS and have quite a bit of Neurosis' discography I also have stuff by bands like Agalloch, Zebulon Pike, Red Sparowes and Pelican, although they may not be in the same ballpark as Swans.

Would Swans work for me, and which of their phases should I investigate first?

(And also, if I may mediate between Bob and Scrotum: Scrotum, I think your response to Bob was bit harsh, given that his post was more of the "not for me, but I can see why people like 'em" variety. Bob, I don't think Scrotum was attacking you, but his response was more along the lines of being frustrated that a lot of people claim to be open-minded about music but don't really venture out of the comfort zone. I could be misinterpreting, or there may be bad blood from other threads, but I suggest we shake hands, buy each other a drink and move on.

Jeff

I'm happy to move on.

If you already like Red Sparowes and Pelican, and Swans turn out to suit your taste, next step obviously is Doves. I am guessing you're not into the Eagles.

[jeffo621]

If you already like Red Sparowes and Pelican, and Swans turn out to suit your taste, next step obviously is Doves. I am guessing you're not into the Eagles.

Haha. Well played. I never made the connection! And I'm somewhat of an amateur birdwatcher as well (And yes, I can't stand the Eagles. Not much into the Byrds either, for that matter)

[loosefish]

Definitely not Prog, but too eclectic to be comfortably called noise rock or post rock either. They have many softer songs also.

A great band and Incredible live (and really REALLY FUCKING LOUD!!!). Gira is way more intense than a 60 year old should be the mad bastard.

The early 'phase' is hard going for sure, there's still some of it that makes me want to put my head through the wall (ie: Cop). I don't think there's even riffs on the early records, but as works of sheer oppressive ugliness they hit the mark.

'White Light' might be my 3rd favourite after the oft mentioned 'Soundtracks' and 'The Seer' and it's more accessible if anything by them can be labelled thus. There's some really beautiful heavy shoegaze type stuff on that one (and to a lesser extent, 'Love of Life')

The Great Annihilator was patchy. It had "Blood Promise" and very little else.

It's a weird one. Some good stuff and yet much of it almost sounds like a typical alt-rock band, which in Swans world makes it even more alarming.

Oxygen from 'To Be Kind' was probably my favourite track from last year.

[trurl]

Like it or not, a band name is your first impression and it will have an effect. How many people admit they have never bothered with a band called "Snarky Puppy" because it just sounds like some kind of punk band? That's reality.

[bob_32_116]

I have got to the stage where I have an inbuilt bias against any band whose name starts with 'M', and the onus is on them to prove me wrong.

Having said that, the 'M' section of my CD collection is quite large, but a good fraction of that is Joni Mitchell.

[Mister Triscuits]

How many people admit they have never bothered with a band called "Snarky Puppy" because it just sounds like some kind of punk band? That's reality.

Well, that name is a particularly unfortunate choice, because people are obviously going to confuse/associate them with Skinny Puppy. I'm sure I did.

Obligatory on-topic content: To Be Kind was the first Swans album I've ever bought, and I thought it was great.

[bob_32_116]

The first time I saw mention of Snarky Puppy, I thought someone was just intentionally mangling the name Skinny Puppy.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Well, that name is a particularly unfortunate choice, because people are obviously going to confuse/associate them with Skinny Puppy. I'm sure I did.

I would agree with that.

But the brilliance of the band name in question here is the lack of definite article; they're simply named Swans - a symbol of which the blackened "eyemask" constitutes its foremost component in most mythology, this because blackened eyes can not be read and therefore blur all purported insights to the soul.

Harper Lee's upcoming book is a topic in global news media this week, and that got me thinking about an incident in which a friend of mine who's a former highschool teacher was met with laughter on presenting his pupils with To Kill a Mockingbird - this because 15-year old dudes weren't interested in reading and DEFINITELY not about mockingbirds and/or why these shouldn't be killed. However, the serious wonder arose when he tried explaining some of the main narrative of the text and was confronted with the seemingly impossible task of "justifying" its title.

[jeffo621]

I have got to the stage where I have an inbuilt bias against any band whose name starts with 'M', and the onus is on them to prove me wrong.

Having said that, the 'M' section of my CD collection is quite large, but a good fraction of that is Joni Mitchell.

That's funny, because I think the "M" is the both the strongest letter in my music collection as well as the most diverse and most representative of my musical taste. Heh - that almost sounds like it should be its own thread: "What is the strongest letter in your musical collection?"

[bob_32_116]

Without actually doing a count, I think the best represented letters in my collection would be 'G' (because of Genesis), 'M' (Joni, Midnight Oil and Midnight Juggernauts & others) and 'P' (Pink Floyd, Porcupine Tree).

[Mister Triscuits]

Can't beat Z in my house, just because Zappa and Zorn have such huge catalogs.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Can't beat Z in my house, just because Zappa and Zorn have such huge catalogs.

You need some Zs in there; they have at least a dozen and a half releases now.

[PeterG]

Billy? Is that You?

[NogbadTheBad]

It would be T for me with The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, The Animals, ...