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Thread: Genesis's Duke-35 years on!

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by 2steves View Post
    Think it's interesting no one mentions GENESIS shapes ---I thought it was good when it came out---especially Mama and Home By the Sea---guess it;s not a fan favorite and hasn't held up the test of time.
    I've always liked this album. There's sort of a subtle dark brooding(for them) quality throughout much of it. Very solid album and rates somewhere in the lower middle of their catalog for me.

  2. #27
    Member Phlakaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2steves View Post
    Think it's interesting no one mentions GENESIS shapes ---I thought it was good when it came out---especially Mama and Home By the Sea---guess it;s not a fan favorite and hasn't held up the test of time.
    I like it about as much as Abacab actually... I might have a different view of these albums than some though because I was born in 1973 and at an impressionable age when those came out - I was still into a lot of radio and pop music at that point - although I did love Rush and Yes already.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    The sound on Duke (save Turn It Off Again) reminds me of Curious Feeling and Smallcreep's Day... as if all three were made in the same studio with the same engineer/producer
    I don't know if you meant this as an obvious joke, but yes, all three albums were recorded at the same studio, Polar Studios in Stockholm, which was Abba's studio. Led Zeppelin had recorded "In Through The Out Door" there in late 1978. Tony Banks recorded his album there in Spring '79, Rutherford followed in the Autumn, and finally Genesis in late 1979.
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  4. #29
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    I don't know if you meant this as an obvious joke, but yes, all three albums were recorded at the same studio, Polar Studios in Stockholm, which was Abba's studio. Led Zeppelin had recorded "In Through The Out Door" there in late 1978. Tony Banks recorded his album there in Spring '79, Rutherford followed in the Autumn, and finally Genesis in late 1979.
    Actually, nope, not a joke... I wasn't aware of this (I never owned Smallscreep or Feeling >> either borrowed or rented them)... I guess I heard a "sound" ... or maybe the songwriting and timeline proximity helped
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  5. #30
    I think I like Shapes overall more than ABACAB but I like the title cut and Dodo/Lurker more than most of the songs on Shapes even though I probably like Mama most of all. Or something like that.

  6. #31
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    Shapes is a good pop album but other than "second home by the sea" there isn't much proggish material on there imo. "Silver rainbow" is a very cool and under rated track though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2steves View Post
    Think it's interesting no one mentions GENESIS shapes ---I thought it was good when it came out---especially Mama and Home By the Sea---guess it;s not a fan favorite and hasn't held up the test of time.
    I mentioned it - but since this is a Duke thread, I did not want to dwell on it.

    I enjoy Mama, except I could do without Phil's coughing fit in the middle of it. My personal favourites on that album are actually the final two songs.

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post
    I mentioned it - but since this is a Duke thread, I did not want to dwell on it.

    I enjoy Mama, except I could do without Phil's coughing fit in the middle of it. My personal favourites on that album are actually the final two songs.
    "Coughing fit"? You mean the "sinister laugh"? I liked it except for the "Ow" thing (which sounds like an ET impression). I think Phil said he lifted the actual laughing bit off The Message by Grandmaster Flash And The Furious Five.

  9. #34
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    I think this was the period when the record companies demanded a new musical direction from the prog bands, insistinig on commercial viability.

    Duke was made in late 1979 and released in 1980. What other prog albums from the major bands came out during this period?

    Yes: Tormato (1978) and Drama (1980 with an altered lineup).
    ELP: Love Beach (1979)
    Tull: Stormwatch (1979) and A (1980, with an altered lineup)
    Floyd: The Wall (1979) (New musical direction)
    Crimson: Discipline (1981) (new lineup and musical direction)
    Genesis: Duke (1980) (reduced lineup and new musical direction)
    UK: Danger Money (1979) (evolving musical direction)

    None of these could be considered by prog fans as anywhere near their peak, with perhaps a couple of arguable exceptions.

    The split of U.K. involved the differences in musical direction, with Eddie wanting longer, complex pieces while John wanted shorter, more commercial songs. This evolved into:

    Asia (1982)
    Rush - Moving Pictures (1981)
    Yes - 90125 (1983)
    ELP - ELPowell (1986)

    I think this trend began in 1977 but hit full stride by 1979.

    Bob

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phlakaton View Post
    I like it about as much as Abacab actually... I might have a different view of these albums than some though because I was born in 1973 and at an impressionable age when those came out - I was still into a lot of radio and pop music at that point - although I did love Rush and Yes already.
    That explains it! I was born in '53 and had stopped listening to mainstream radio by '73. When you were buying the '70s Genesis albums as they were released, it was hard to accept '80s Genesis. Well, for some of us at least.

  11. #36
    I think Duke is my favourite album by them. I always think of the Gabriel albums as lacking "crunch" compared to their contemporaries like VDGG and KC and being a bit twee. They became a lot more powerful when he left, at least for a time. Trick of the tail is a very close second but I like the thematic cohesion of Duke and the really innovative blend of prog and soul, which hadn't really been done before apart from maybe Fripps work with Darryl Hall.
    They never made as consistent an album as this again, although I enjoy side 1 of shapes, Dodo and Domino and other tunes to a lesser extent.

  12. #37
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    I love Duke.

  13. #38
    Member bill g's Avatar
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    I relistened to Abacab recently and liked a lot of it. 'Me & Sarah Jane' of course I thought blew the rest of it out of the water, but I 'got' what they were trying to do. But then I tried the s/t (shapes) album and it just didn't do it for me. I do like the last two tracks probably the most, and 'Second Home'. And 'Taking It All Too Hard' has some cool chords so I rather liked it. And the chords (in the middle) section of 'Mama' were kind of cool, though nothing earth-shattering. The rest just seemed ... bland to me. At that point Genesis and I were going two different directions. I didn't even go to their concert that tour because I was so disappointed with their direction.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigSixFan View Post
    I think this was the period when the record companies demanded a new musical direction from the prog bands, insistinig on commercial viability.

    Duke was made in late 1979 and released in 1980. What other prog albums from the major bands came out during this period?

    Yes: Tormato (1978) and Drama (1980 with an altered lineup).
    ELP: Love Beach (1979)
    Tull: Stormwatch (1979) and A (1980, with an altered lineup)
    Floyd: The Wall (1979) (New musical direction)
    Crimson: Discipline (1981) (new lineup and musical direction)
    Genesis: Duke (1980) (reduced lineup and new musical direction)
    UK: Danger Money (1979) (evolving musical direction)

    None of these could be considered by prog fans as anywhere near their peak, with perhaps a couple of arguable exceptions.

    The split of U.K. involved the differences in musical direction, with Eddie wanting longer, complex pieces while John wanted shorter, more commercial songs. This evolved into:

    Asia (1982)
    Rush - Moving Pictures (1981)
    Yes - 90125 (1983)
    ELP - ELPowell (1986)

    I think this trend began in 1977 but hit full stride by 1979.

    Bob
    Don't forget Gentle Giant with Civilian(1980).

    But yeah bands had to change musical direction at that point because prog was becoming out of fashion due to the record companies changing focus on what to promote and focus on and subsequently what to play on the radio.

  15. #40
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    I liked, but didn't love Duke. Each successive album post W&W appealed to me less and less. I find Duke a mixed bag, and somewhat anemic in the low end. Much prefer this material live (give Lyceum '80 a listen for the best complete rendition). Behind the Lines was the best opening concert song for them IMO (and I saw all tours W&W on); they must have thought so too because it opened their final tour.

  16. #41
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    This was the first Genesis album that I awaited with anticipation. I got on board just before ATTWT, but didn't have the build up through the music press for that one like I did for 'Duke.' After 'Duke' came out, the music press heralded it as something of a comeback, and one mag had a feature with the band that "had put power and panache into Duke."

    Pffft. When I heard the album, I didn't hate it, but it was clearly a step down from the band that I had fallen in love with. While tracks like "Cul De Sac," "Behind The Lines," "Duchess," "Heathaze," and the closing instrumentals were OK/solid Genesis tracks, the rest were missing the mark. I wasn't looking for them to regurgitate one of their earlier albums, but 'Duke' went in a direction that was clearly moving away from what I had enjoyed above all other bands. Little did I know what was coming.

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    Reading behind the lines, it seems that unless there is a misunderstanding on my part, many posters here (and probably many lurkers) are glad to reach Duke's end. Still, like it or not, they can always either turn it on again or just put on another record.

  18. #43
    Member bill g's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post
    Reading behind the lines, it seems that unless there is a misunderstanding on my part, many too many posters here (and probably many lurkers) are glad to reach Duke's end. Still, like it or not, they can always either turn it on again or just put on another record. And perhaps one day, its gonna get better
    Added 3 for ya But nice, even a Banks' solo reference!

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill g View Post
    Added 3 for ya But nice, even a Banks' solo reference!
    That reference was unintentional, though I realised it as I was posting it.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post
    That reference was unintentional, though I realised it as I was posting it.
    That unintentional reference would never happen with, say, Hackett's or Rutherford's solo debut.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill g View Post
    That unintentional reference would never happen with, say, Hackett's or Rutherford's solo debut.
    I have a curious feeling that you may be confusing Tony's debut with a later release of his.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post
    I have a curious feeling that you may be confusing Tony's debut with a later release of his.
    Still...
    -=Will you stand by me against the cold night, or are you afraid of the ice?=-

  23. #48
    Never really liked Duke all that much but it was the first time i SAW Genesis LIVE. (Long Beach Arena in LA then a few weeks later...MSG in NY)

    So I have strong nostalgia for the concert & set-list, I can say though, that I never even OWNED the album...still don't) ATTWT was my exit album for them.

  24. #49
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    I always found Duke to be a poor sounding piece of vinyl (53 minutes is way too long for a single album). The CD release was certainly an improvement sonically (as the low frequencies were rolled off to make the length possible. The song sequencing from the vinyl still hurt the record. I remember someone talking of an original song order buy I never found out what it was to be.

    All that said I like most of the songs and find them to be better than many of the other compositions from the 80s.
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  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by bp View Post
    I remember someone talking of an original song order buy I never found out what it was to be.
    That refers to the Albert story/suite mentioned upthread.

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