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Thread: Zappa's Joe's Garage

  1. #126
    chalkpie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    If I don't agree, do I have to go to 're-education' camp?
    Nah. You don't have to prove shit to anyone

  2. #127
    chalkpie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Frankie the vinyl sounds much better
    If you want to know more about Zappa production of that era and much more read the elaborate 5 part interview with Mark Pinske Frank's engineer
    highly recommended to any self respecting Zappa freak
    http://www.mixonline.com/news/profil...day-one/373053
    Thanks for this man.

  3. #128
    chalkpie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phlakaton View Post
    For me he is the best guitarist ever. Me. Not you. haha. I dont hear too many players willing to put it out there like he did every night on that instrument... sometimes the solos were a bit too long for sure - but risks... making some wack and horrible notes - all in there. Being clean and having the ability to play anything doesnt interest me. Its about guts and sauce... and Frank had that in heaps and piles.
    ^This. With the exception of somebody using the guitar creating textures/sounds (i.e. Derek Bailey, Frith, etc at certain times), I have never heard a single guitarist to this day that can create tension and release in phrases that can seemingly go on forever. Well Holdsy can do this, but he's different and plays quantized rhythms as his main spice, whereas FZ rarely played anything evenly on the beat (I said rarely, not never!). Also, FZ had an amazing ability to subdivide a measure of 4/4 into such intricate and oddball polyrhythms/tuplets - its a rare gift - Keneally can do it . Agreed on what Reid said as well - more of a composer than a proper guitarist if that makes any sense, well I guess it does to us hardcore FZ guitar-worshipping fanatics. It didn't matter if he played piano, guitar, trumpet, sax, etc I think he would have played the same way - it was in his DNA. He couldn't play "outside" at the snap of a finger like Metheny, Ambercrombie, Scofield, Scott Henderson, etc but that was irrelevant as his modal/rhythmic approach was beautiful in itself. Crossbow to my head if had to choose one single IMPROVISER on any instrument - yeah its him. I guess I like him

    I think if people tried to learn any of his solos note-for-note you may gain a whole new world of appreciation for his approach and accomplishment on the instrument. My copy of The Frank Zappa Guitar Book is GOLD. I wouldn't part with that for any amount.

    Check out this guy - he is to commended and then some. The amount of knowledge to learn this is staggering IMO:

    (PS - I know most of you already know this, but this solo is taken from "Inca Roads". It truly is a composition within a composition. FZ could have hired any certain stunt guitarist, Bruce Fowler, David Ocker, etc to transcribe this solo and make the entire band learn it....Voila...instant FZ melody!)

    Last edited by chalkpie; 04-02-2015 at 09:55 AM.

  4. #129
    Member dgtlman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    Masterpiece tune right here folks. Find me a more intertesting or beautiful moog (or whatever it is) solo ever, please. Utter perfection.

    It's f@cking genius!

  5. #130
    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    If I don't agree, do I have to go to 're-education' camp?
    I can't help but think of this ...


  6. #131
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    ^ ^ ^

    Of course that is exactly what I was referring to.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  7. #132
    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    ^ ^ ^

    Of course that is exactly what I was referring to.
    Ha! I've got to rewatch 200 Motels. I saw it way too young and didn't have a clue what was going on. Thanks to Mystery Science Theater 3000, I now have a pretty high tolerance for cheesy movies that go nowhere - and at least the satire and some of the music is good in this cheesy movie.

  8. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    So is everyone who plays a solo or improvises.

    Or was it only FZ?
    I'm speaking of the content. There's actual melody lines that you can sing, and the solos are played live, not constructed in the studio. I wasn't trying to say other players haven't done the same thing. And then there are a lot of guitarists that just play blues licks or fragmented lines that aren't really melodies. I just like listening to FZ, I don't give a shit who's better, who's best.

  9. #134
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombywoof View Post
    Ha! I've got to rewatch 200 Motels. I saw it way too young and didn't have a clue what was going on.
    No one, including (possibly especially including) the participants had a clue what was going on. Not sure FZ did completely either.

    It has its moments for sure though (the re-training camp sequence is one of the best, imo).
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  10. #135
    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    Best guitarist? Well, music ain't a contest, but I love when Frank rips a solo, with great tone and an inspired vamp. (See Zomby Woof, 50/50, Inca Roads, Muffin Man, City of Tiny Lights to name a few), but it does nothing for me when he sort of noodles around over a loose or plodding rhythm. This is why, for the life of me, I can't listen to Shut Up and Play Yer Guitar for more than 20 minutes or so. It's over my head.

  11. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by zombywoof View Post
    I can't listen to Shut Up and Play Yer Guitar for more than 20 minutes or so. It's over my head.
    Just keep listening. It takes a while to sink in. And, imo, some solos are better than others. But the three consecutive solos starting with Deathless Horsie are the cream for my ears. But all of the titles tracks are great, as is the delicate playing on While You Were Out. And the skronky Pinocchio's Furniture taken from Chunga's Revenge.

  12. #137
    Member Phlakaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    Just keep listening. It takes a while to sink in. And, imo, some solos are better than others. But the three consecutive solos starting with Deathless Horsie are the cream for my ears. But all of the titles tracks are great, as is the delicate playing on While You Were Out. And the skronky Pinocchio's Furniture taken from Chunga's Revenge.
    I gravitated to SUAPYG quick... but it helps me to see his hands to fully understand what I'm hearing too. Deathless Horsie is also my favorite on the whole thing - with Pink Napkins taking a close second (mainly because its such a beautiful track and solo - tone is amazing - I like this one more than Watermelon too).

  13. #138
    Member Guitarplyrjvb's Avatar
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    Wasn't Uncle Meat supposed to be a movie, too? At least that's what I remember from the liner notes to the LP.

  14. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarplyrjvb View Post
    Wasn't Uncle Meat supposed to be a movie, too? At least that's what I remember from the liner notes to the LP.
    It was a movie.. saw it on VHS years ago.. haven't a clue whether or not it made it to DVD or not..

  15. #140
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happytheman View Post
    It was a movie.. saw it on VHS years ago.. haven't a clue whether or not it made it to DVD or not..
    Nope VHS only. And it makes 200 Motels look like a model of gripping, tightly plotted storytelling.

  16. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarplyrjvb View Post
    Wasn't Uncle Meat supposed to be a movie, too? At least that's what I remember from the liner notes to the LP.
    Well, Frank did eventually release the movie on VHS during the 80's. I think it was said at the time, they ran out of money, so they couldn't finish the movie. I have no idea what form the VHS release took, but I remember hearing years later from people who saw it that it wasn't very good.

  17. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Well, Frank did eventually release the movie on VHS during the 80's. I think it was said at the time, they ran out of money, so they couldn't finish the movie. I have no idea what form the VHS release took, but I remember hearing years later from people who saw it that it wasn't very good.
    I honestly only remember the scene in the shower with the hamburger meat...

  18. #143
    Member Phlakaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happytheman View Post
    I honestly only remember the scene in the shower with the hamburger meat...
    It was a sort of documentary with footage of the band in I think '68 and interviews - but ya - never finished and all the random footage just got edited in there to make a huge non-linear crazy mess. Some funny stuff though and worth watching at least once. Don Preston playing a monster is always a good thing. ROyal Albert Hall Footage is nice to watch anytime.

  19. #144
    chalkpie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    Nope VHS only. And it makes 200 Motels look like a model of gripping, tightly plotted storytelling.
    Haha!

  20. #145
    RE: Uncle Meat on DVD
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    Nope VHS only. And it makes 200 Motels look like a model of gripping, tightly plotted storytelling.
    Wow, well said. While 200 Motels is as bizarre as you can get, there's at least a few themes running through it. Uncle Meat is a collage of weirdness. The saving grace of Uncle Meat is the Mothers performance of the play which was eventually released as the first part of Ahead of Their Time (CD). Otherwise, the Uncle Meat movie is definitely one to miss (oh, there's also a pretty decent video of Mr. Green Genes in the movie worth seeing).

  21. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Phlakaton View Post
    ROyal Albert Hall Footage is nice to watch anytime.
    Ah I do remember liking that bit.. think I saw some of that in one of the docs. I've saw on Netflix..

  22. #147
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    "In the early years of Phish, people often said we were like "Frank Zappa meets the Grateful Dead" — which sounds very bizarre. But Zappa was incredibly vital to me, as a composer and guitarist. I think he was the best electric-guitar player, other than Jimi Hendrix. Zappa conceptualized the instrument in a completely different way, rhythmically and sonically. Every boundary that was possible on the guitar was examined by him." -Trey A agrees with Frank C. Well, almost!

    Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/li...#ixzz3WS4TNGsK

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