Zappa's Joe's Garage

[Guitarplyrjvb]

Despite being somewhat of a Zappa completist, I never owned this one. After getting it from the library, I had to buy it. Despite the scatological humor, adolescent gags, and general silliness, there are some outright musical gems on this one. Watermelon in Easter Hay, On the Bus, Keep it Greasy, and Outside Now to name a few. The other silly songs often have several bars of genius embedded in them like Fembot in a Wet T-Shirt or contain some great playing like the slide guitar in Crew Slut. It's just frustrating that you've got to get through some real juvenile comedy bits to get to the jaw dropping stuff sometimes. I know it's useless to wonder, but what if Zappa had dispensed with the silliness and just concentrated on serious music? I guess he had to sell his art somehow, but geez, some of his music is like poofting a green rosetta on a diamond.

[gpeccary]

I feel the same way about the humor. It grows old very quickly unfortunately. But I would argue that this, along with most of his other work, is pretty serious. He said lyrics were for those that need them, but I think he needed them too. I don't think he either gave much credit to the intelligence of his audience or gave himself much credit for the work he did, always dumbing it down to its lowest common denominator. I think if he stayed away from the juvenile lyrics he would have been taken far more seriously than he gave himself a chance to be. He was a pretty jaded cynical bastard in the end.
From what I've read, the piece was built off his previous guitar solos, composed and conducted live in the studio. That sounds pretty effing serious! Truly kick ass band on this one. And you're right, there are some really beautiful gems in there. It remains one of my faves.

[Guitarplyrjvb]

I guess most of his best-selling music was from the novelty end of the spectrum like Valley Girl. I suppose he wouldn't have had the freedom to do his serious stuff had it not been wrapped around the juvie humor.

[GuitarGeek]

One has to admit, Keep It Greasy is a pretty good metaphor for the music biz, ie musicians being raped by record company henchmen.

For me, the best thing on this record is Watermelon In Easter Hay. That's probably the best thing Frank ever did on the guitar. Yes, it's sentimental, so what?! That's the point of the story. Joe is sad that he has to take a "straight" job and give up hope of ever being a musician. And I think Frank wrings every bit of emotion one can from the guitar on the track. I had to buy that damn guitar book that Vai transcribed, just so I could learn how to play the written part (apparently, my ears don't work too well in terms learning to play melodic stuff by ear).

I sooooo wish there was a version out there that didn't have the Central Scrutinizer VO over the intro. It kind of makes it awkward to play on a radio show, outside the context of the entire album.

[gpeccary]

I guess most of his best-selling music was from the novelty end of the spectrum like Valley Girl. I suppose he wouldn't have had the freedom to do his serious stuff had it not been wrapped around the juvie humor.

He said he had to play Dina mo hum a LOT to build his new studio. So yeah, the Juvie stuff paid for the "serious" stuff. But I hate using serious in reference to him. Because the serious work was underneath the Juvie stuff. To me, it was all serious work. Everybody seems to link him to yellow snow, but they never reference how effing serious that music is. I'm always telling people forget the lyrics listen to that song, it's mind blowing. Crickets and tumbleweeds in response.

[bRETT]

. I know it's useless to wonder, but what if Zappa had dispensed with the silliness and just concentrated on serious music?

You could argue that he did that in the last ten years of his career (and in a certain phases beforehand).

[Guitarplyrjvb]

Yeah, I guess that's right. I think the Yellow Shark is as close as he ever came to doing what he wanted.

[polmico]

but what if Zappa had dispensed with the silliness and just concentrated on serious music?

And sung about what?

The names of dances, with whom you're supposed to the dance and the frequency with which the dance is done?

Love?

Serious social issues?

Dismissing FZ's lyrics as just silly (and therefore not serious and not even slightly heavy) means you have to throw out a lot of his music, too. It doesn't really matter what lyrics you put to a song like "Montana" or "Penguin in Bondage"; they're going to sound "silly."

This doesn't mean you have to like his lyrics, or that you can't dislike the lyrics and still like the music. But I'm afraid if you sang a lyric like "I might be falling in love with you tonight" instead of "I might be moving to Montana soon," not only would it not be not silly, but it'd probably be stupid.

Zappa was so serious about it all. He didn't care if you thought it was silly, folks.

[polmico]

Yeah, I guess that's right. I think the Yellow Shark is as close as he ever came to doing what he wanted.

And I think that's grossly simple at best, revisionist at worst. There's no way he wrote all those silly songs just so he could put out the occasional "heavy" album like Yellow Shark and, um, the other heavy album. You know the one.

[chalkpie]

I know it's useless to wonder, but what if Zappa had dispensed with the silliness and just concentrated on serious music? I guess he had to sell his art somehow, but geez, some of his music is like poofting a green rosetta on a diamond.

As far as the so-called juvenilia here, there is actually a brilliant message that is still relevant to today's society....look just a bit deeper and you'll see what I mean. That makes what he did even more brilliant since he was able to "hide" his underlying message of artistic freedom underneath the silliness. As for concentrating on serious music, well no need to wish or dream that he would do such a thing because he did it. Its out there, just look for it. Go ahead and get some scores for The Yellow Shark or The Perfect Stranger - plenty to sing your teeth in there. For the folks who wish that FZ was somebody he wasn't, well its evident that they don't fully understand what type of person FZ was. Sorry, but this is just a pretty stupid notion - its akin to saying that I wish The Canterbury scene didn't have the whimsical English humour and was more "serious" like Jon Anderson or Peter Gabriel. As a pretty hardcore and dedicated FZ fan, there really isn't anything I would change about what he accomplished, and I am obviously not alone. There is plenty of "serious" music out there for folks who want that type of thing.

[Guitarplyrjvb]

Hey, thanks for that comment and the insulting way you delivered it. I actually "get" the message. It's not that hard to see. I could do without all the Jewish Princesses, Catholic and Valley Girls and most of Flo And Eddie. Yeah, it's funny. However, I feel it does obscure some great music. You don't. No need spout vitriol.

[Phlakaton]

I love this record... and it took me a long time to feel comfortable with it... the singing and lyrics are now a little thing that happens while the music plays and I really dont notice them. The music is ridiculously good - I think Packard Goose would be my favorite on this one.

[trurl]

Frank wasn't doing the humor to sell out... that's who he was. He was being as artistically honest singing about Bobby Brown as anything else he did.

[mx20]

Hey, thanks for that comment and the insulting way you delivered it. I actually "get" the message. It's not that hard to see. I could do without all the Jewish Princesses, Catholic and Valley Girls and most of Flo And Eddie. Yeah, it's funny. However, I feel it does obscure some great music. You don't. No need spout vitriol.

I'm with you on this. Wordless vocals would have suited me fine, BTW.

[bRETT]

Frank wasn't doing the humor to sell out... that's who he was. He was being as artistically honest singing about Bobby Brown as anything else he did.

Yeah, and he saw no difference between that and the more biting satire of "We're Only In It for the Money," to the frustration of many fans.

[Steve F.]

My recollection from 30-whatever years ago, when I heard it for the first and only time, that it was the first FZ album that didn't appear to have a single great piece of music in it somewhere to redeem its awfulness....

It was the 1st FZ I hated completely front-to-back and I remember feeling sort of sad about that.

Maybe I would feel differently now. Dunno.

[flowerking]

I love this record... and it took me a long time to feel comfortable with it... the singing and lyrics are now a little thing that happens while the music plays and I really dont notice them. The music is ridiculously good - I think Packard Goose would be my favorite on this one.

Love Packard Goose. For me, its easily the best thing on the release but Watermelon is a hell of a solo, very emotive and Zappa at his finest. As far as the lyrics go, keep in mind (at least according to Zappa), this was just a collection of songs. The weekend before going into the studio to record it, he wrote the entire overarching theme. I don't know if that meant just the narration or if he adapted some of the lyrics as well, but its pretty impressive if true - coming up with a concept to fit all the collection of songs he had.

Another thing that makes Joes Garage great is that it is a combination of accessible music for the masses (even a semi-radio friendly song in the title track) while having hidden layers of brilliant musicianship.

Not among the best of Zappa's work but certainly the best among maybe his second tier.

[zombywoof]

It was the 1st FZ I hated completely front-to-back and I remember feeling sort of sad about that.

Wow, that's one of the more scathing reviews of the album I've read! I first heard it at the height of my original Zappa obsession (like age 13-14!), so it's hard to tell what I'd think of it if I heard it now for the first time. I loved it to death, though, and played it over and over - possibly because I enjoyed the humor so much. Nowadays it seems kind of weak to me. You know, it's funny how when I first discovered Frank, I worshiped Joe's Garage, Sheik Yerbouti, Apostrophe ('), and so on. Now, I rarely touch those and am all about the early MOI stuff, Waka, Grand Wazoo, and so on. I guess that's called developing a taste in music? Still love Over-nite Sensation, One Size, and Apostrophe (') though, but perhaps for different reasons. Not knocking anyone who loves it, by the way, just commenting on how *my* tastes have changed since then.

[chalkpie]

Hey, thanks for that comment and the insulting way you delivered it. I actually "get" the message. It's not that hard to see. I could do without all the Jewish Princesses, Catholic and Valley Girls and most of Flo And Eddie. Yeah, it's funny. However, I feel it does obscure some great music. You don't. No need spout vitriol.

If you have the right to call his music "juvenile", then I have the right to defend it, no? And as for insulting, maybe go back and read your post regarding his music. That is insulting. He's WAY deeper than you give him credit for. Sure you have the right to dislike his lyrics and subject matter, but don't expect a pat on the back when you call his music things like "juvenile", "gags", "adolescent", etc.

Joe's Garage is one my my favorite albums of all time for about 1,000 different reasons *including* the libretto. And no, I don't go around trashing other people's lyrics here. Why is it OK to trash FZ's?

Just kind of sick and tired of people whining about his lyrics when they are clearly WHO HE WAS ABOUT AS A PERSON. Frank without humor is like pizza without sauce and cheese. It's the same old story.

[zombywoof]

And sung about what?


Serious social issues?

Actually, he did write about this quite a bit on the early MOI albums. I think the fact that We're Only in it for the Money has songs like "Who Needs the Peace Corps?" and "Lonely Little Girl" next to songs about boogers is part of the reason why the album was added to the National Recording Registry and considered "culturally significant".

I agree with Frank (Chalkpie), re: humor and Frank. It's part of the package and part of the reason why I fell so hard for his music. It made me laugh and challenged me in equal measure. It was just so colorful and alive and fun. I guess the part that I struggle with today is when the humor seems to take away from the music (see Thing-Fish). Joe's Garage has some seriously great music on it, on the other hand - like "Packard Goose" which is one of my absolute favorite FZ songs ever.

[chalkpie]

How about this one for the haters? If they actually get this far in the album (yes it's on disc 2), do you consider this juvenile as well? For my money this is as real as it gets - Ike's vocal performance embodies FZ's libretto as perfectly as James Morris as Wotan in Der Ring. The brilliance lies in the juxtaposition of the humor along with this heartfelt sentiment of a guy whose heart has been ripped out since his beloved music is forever banned, yet has the willpower to "dream" up a guitar solo of staggering beauty in his head.

How is this childish exactly?

[Haruspex Carnage]

This one along with Apostrophe stick in my brain the most...his oeuvre is so expansive that i STILL don't have a handle on it all; that being said, i find his jam-songs irksome.

[GuitarGeek]

Frank wasn't doing the humor to sell out... that's who he was. He was being as artistically honest singing about Bobby Brown as anything else he did.

Well, I guess if you're a snot nosed snob who looks down on the entire world because you think everyone is dumber than you, I suppose "artistically honest" might be how might describe the songs such a person would write.

He may have genuinely found something hilarious about the "Jewish Princess" phenomenon, but the idea that he was making some artsy fartsy statement by writing a song about, or that he really didn't know that people were going to get offended by such a song, I think is just ridiculous. He knew people were gonna get up in arms about that song (and probably several others) and he knew it would generate free publicity. Plain and simple.

[mx20]

I don't think it's uncommon in a place like this (you know, a music discussion board) to discuss aspects of an artist's music and lyrics. Here we all are, in yet another thread discussing an artist's music and lyrics; big deal. Some love Zappa, some don't; some even use adjectives and to describe music and lyrics; others, not so much. Cool.

[Guitarplyrjvb]

My recollection from 30-whatever years ago, when I heard it for the first and only time, that it was the first FZ album that didn't appear to have a single great piece of music in it somewhere to redeem its awfulness....

It was the 1st FZ I hated completely front-to-back and I remember feeling sort of sad about that.


Maybe I would feel differently now. Dunno.

That was my impression, too. I didn't hate it, but I didn't like it much either. I've come to appreciate it much more recently after slogging through the silly parts. There is some great music on it.