Yeah, what the hell? There's another thread talking about drastic changes from one album to the next back in the early 70s and I'd say in terms of production you don't often go from a better sounding album to a worse sounding one. Did anyone ever try to get Greg Lake to explain?
I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.
Well, A- Carl bought that STUPID stainless steel drum kit and apparently replaced his cymbals with trash can lids while he was at it, and B- they recorded it on location in a converted theater, presumably with a mobile truck though I don't know about that but obviously things all added up to make a really weird sounding album.
There's a simple reason that Brain Salad Surgery doesn't sound as a good as Trilogy: Eddy Offord chose to go with Yes when they offered him the job as their producer/engineer/live mixer around the time of Close to the Edge. Of course, he went "off his head" on various substances and was let go after Relayer, but in 1972/3 he was a great engineer.
Carl didn't use the stainless steel kit on BSS, he was still using his Ludwig kit. That STUPID kit sounded incredible live IMO, and as Carl said, he played so much better because the drums and cymbals were in the exact same place every show.
BSS was engineered by Chris Kimsey and Geoff Young. Kimsey produced Marillion's Misplaced Childhood, which despite me not liking Fish-era Marillion anymore is a great sounding album. Geoff Young was an engineer on Tormato, maybe we can blame him then?
BSS (and the three "b-sides" of Tiger in the Spotlight, Brain Salad Surgery and When the Apple Blossoms Bloom...) with one exception was recorded at Advision Studios in August & September 1973 with Geoff Young at the desk. Advision was where they'd record the debut, Tarkus and Trilogy. First Impression was recorded at Olympic Studios by Chris Kimsey in June 1973, as he was closely aligned with Olympic Studios (he started as a tape op there). From what I can tell, Lake didn't have much to do with the mix of the album, they rejected one mix that had been submitted, I think by Geoff Young.
They may have done some recording at their converted cinema in Fulham with the Stones mobile, but none of that was on the studio albums, just stuff for the Manticore documentary and the awful track Bo Diddley on the box set.
Last edited by Jeremy Bender; 03-27-2015 at 09:36 PM.
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Carl's kit ca. 1971, a typical jazz kit (i.e. only one mounted tom):
ca. summer 1972, lots of toms evident, still a Ludwig kit:
Another angle, this is pretty much the same kit seen in the footage of the 1973 European tour filmed for the Manticore documentary:
The greatest drum kit in the history of drum kits:
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I love that footage where Palmer discusses the steel 'etchings' of squirrels and stuff on his drum kit.
A pure Spinal Tap prog momment
Making Wikipedia marginally more interesting at:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCul...PXchSo_vDxtcLg
Ringo Starr ended up with it.
This issue of CPs stainless kit and BSS has cropped up before. I think Ed Macan confirmed that the steel kit IS used on BSS.
I've also found that there are only two opinions regarding the song "Pirates" from Works, Vol 1. Fans either think it's the greatest thing ever or despise it. I've yet to find anyone in the middle. I guess it depends on whether you like big Broadway musicals or not.
Mongrel dog soils actor's feet
I'm in the middle I don't hate it but I don't particularly want to hear it.
Any "cheese factor" in the Memoirs lyrics is down to Pete Sinfield, who wrote that and (I think) most of the lyrics on Love Beach. Just like Lake gets dinged for "Every day a little sadder/A little madder/Someone get me a ladder" (which I love, it's an in-joke about the 1973 European tour which was called the Get Me A Ladder tour), people seem to ignore the very good lyrics of Memoir and ding them for "Learned Latin verbs in fear of a beating/And for years thought central heating/Was for just old people's homes". As Jim Morrison once sang, people are strange.Not for me. As a career soldier, I loved the lyrics of Memoirs.
Hahahaha, so true. I'm a huge fan of lyrics, I'll never stop being surprised at how many people don't really listen to them or only dial in on the chorus of a song or even just a single line. A perfect example is REM's The One I Love, which people use as a wedding song. They hear "This one goes out to the one I love" aaaaaahhhhh, how sweet! but ignore "Just a prop, to occupy my time". Bizarre.As for lyrics, ELP's goofy lyrics never really had any impact. After all, I was also weaned on Yes and Led Zeppelin. That could condition anyone to ignore lyrical content.
I'm not a fan of "big Broadway musicals", to put it mildly, but I love the music and the lyrics of Pirates. I think it's ELP's last great song and the five times I heard it live (twice with ELPowell and three times with ELPalmer), it was very powerful. There's a great bootleg recording around of the 10/30/86 ELPowell Greek Theatre show that has a blazing version of it, and the one I heard in Las Vegas with ELPalmer in 1992 was one of the best things I've heard in concert ever, they were totally locked in for that song. Ten on the black to beat the Frenchman, back you dogs! give him room to turn........I've also found that there are only two opinions regarding the song "Pirates" from Works, Vol 1. Fans either think it's the greatest thing ever or despise it. I've yet to find anyone in the middle. I guess it depends on whether you like big Broadway musicals or not.
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I didn't think 'Pirates' was that divisive. For me personally, I only ever bother with the group stuff on that album. The first few instrumental minutes of that song feature some of Emerson's best writing as far as I'm concerned.
'Memoirs' on the other hand doesn't do it for me. I like parts of the music but there's nothing new even there.
Funnily enough I always liked that hard, metallic sound of BSS! I never understood why it was badly received. The only album of the early ones which I find not especially good-sounding is 'Tarkus'.
With the exception of First Impression, all of Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery were record at Advision, their usual haunt. Yes recorded The Yes Album, Fragile and Close to the Edge and Gentle Giant recorded all of their albums from Acquiring the Taste to Interview there too. As I wrote above, the reason that Brain Salad Surgery isn't as well produced as Trilogy is that Eddy Offord didn't do the engineering. The Beatles records changed their sound too when Norman Smith left to become a producer and Geoff Emerick came aboard for Revolver.
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Details of the new deluxe have just been released. An unheard version of From the Beginning is included. It's not a Steve Wilson project though!
Tony Ortiz - Official Archivist at Emerson Lake & Palmer
https://www.facebook.com/tony.ortiz.94064
Tony Ortiz - Official Archivist at Emerson Lake & Palmer
https://www.facebook.com/tony.ortiz.94064
Track listing for reissue:
CD 1 - Trilogy, The Original Album:
1. The Endless Enigma (Part One) (6:42)
2. Fugue (1:57)
3. The Endless Enigma (Part Two) (2:05)
4. From The Beginning (4:17)
5. The Sheriff (3:23)
6. Hoedown (3:47)
7. Trilogy (8:54)
8. Living Sin (3:14)
9. Abaddon's Bolero (8:08)
CD 2 - Trilogy New Stereo Mix:
1. From The Beginning (alternate version)
2. The Endless Enigma (Part One)
3. Fugue
4. The Endless Enigma (Part Two)
5. From The Beginning
6. The Sheriff
7. Hoedown
8. Trilogy
9. Living Sin
10. Abaddon's Bolero
DVD - A - Trilogy 5.1:
1. The Endless Enigma (Part One)
2. Fugue
3. The Endless Enigma (Part Two)
4. From The Beginning
5. The Sheriff
6. Hoedown
7. Trilogy
8. Living Sin
9. Abaddon's Bolero
10. From The Beginning (alternate version)
So, one track that wasn't on the original album and it's an "alternate version", I guess expecting a whole bunch of ELP songs from 1970-74 that never made the albums is unrealistic.
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The bonus content is very disppointing, especially considering that we know they found 8 demos of Hoedown, 3 demos of Bolero, 2 alternate takes of Living Sin, 2 alternate takes of Hoedown, 4 instrumental early takes of The Sheriff and an outtake of Bolero, all on the BSS reels. Maybe Tony can elaborate?
Thanks for that info. Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I love the drum sound on Trilogy (esp. the kick) and I love the production of BSS. I think First Impression sounds crappier than the rest of the album, now I know why (maybe). I always thought that the stainless kit was built for the tour, not the album. Isn't there video footage of ELP in the studio with Carl on a Ludwig (?) kit? In which city did the stainless kit fall through the stage? For some reason, I want to say Richmond, VA. Anyone?
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