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Thread: What was wrong with 70's Prog?

  1. #1

    What was wrong with 70's Prog?

    We got less than 10 years of great 70's style prog. Many other genres of music get decades, some even centuries.

    What was it about 70's style prog that didn't interest modern prog artists?

    There was no metal in the old prog.
    The drummers were much more jazz influenced than they are now.
    I feel like the great 70's prog drummers who played in the jazz style or fusion style were just wonderful.
    They were not just time keepers with fast fills, they played much more dynamically.

    The 70's music was much more natural and real sounding. The albums sounded like a band was playing.
    The instruments were for the most part easily identifiable. The music breathed more and sounded more authentic.

    To my ears, most of the modern production sounds homogenized. It's all so perfect and of course a lot of that is done in post production editing etc. The bar has been lowered to the point that anyone can have perfect meter if they are handy with their laptop.

    Most prog guitarists seem to embrace the heavy metal distorted compressed guitar sound particularly for leads. The compression takes a lot of the players dynamic out of the music in my opinion.

    I feel like the 70's prog guitarists played much cleaner in general.

    The overall songwriting in the 70's seemed to be much more sophisticated compared to the chops or noise oriented stuff I hear so much today.

    Maybe I am in a bad mood.

  2. #2
    Estimated Prophet notallwhowander's Avatar
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    Here's a newer band that has it right...



    I have been beating thus drum for a while, but every so often I remember how good this album is, and think they deserve another mention.
    Last edited by notallwhowander; 03-21-2015 at 01:50 AM.
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  3. #3
    How many more of these circular threads covering the same ground before you just start the 'I have no interest in listening to music recorded after 1978' thread and have done with it?
    I get it. You like a narrow seam of music stuff made in the 70s. Glad it's working out for you.

  4. #4
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skullhead View Post
    What was it about 70's style prog that didn't interest modern prog artists?
    To my ears, most of the modern production sounds homogenized.



    Maybe I am in a bad mood.
    maybe that's it





    Or you forgot about the hundreds of 70's clones that abounded in the last three decades
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  5. #5
    Member at least 100 dead's Avatar
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    A band such as Thinking Plague doesn’t fit your description of current prog at all. Their music breathes more than Alex Morgan at the end of the semifinals against Canada in 2012 and is just as foxy.

    Also, King Crimson was always quite metallic (cf. 21st Century Schizoid Man, Larks’ Tongues II, Red).
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Kavus Torabi View Post
    I get it.
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    What Kavus said.

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    Absolutely agree with topic starter.

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    Member Jay.Dee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skullhead View Post
    The 70's music was much more natural and real sounding. The [prog] albums sounded like a band was playing.
    It will be easier if you provide us with some examples of your "natural and real sounding" 70s prog albums.

  10. #10
    There is no music that's lasted centuries without changing at it's front-end. Most of the history of film music seems to be derived from the late Romantic period, but in many ways it's a pastiche of the styles of individual composers of the era. Composition changed, it's just that people liked a certain style so got "stuck" listening to it because it made them feel good. We see this in Prog. A good number of people deride the 70s throwback bands that are abundant. Are they any different than Jazz musicians that put out records that sound like it's perpetually 1964?

    Hard Bop has become a sub-genre that people still want to hear as has the early 70s style of Prog. There are people who push at the forefront of music, but it shouldn't be a surprise that the majority of listeners are not ready for the shift.
    No matter what anyone says, you are the decider of how you will listen to music.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Best groove ever!
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    Member Brian Griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grego View Post
    Absolutely agree with topic starter.
    Seems totally in line with my thinking as well

    BG
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  13. #13
    Member Firth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by at least 100 dead View Post
    A band such as Thinking Plague doesn’t fit your description of current prog at all. Their music breathes more than Alex Morgan at the end of the semifinals against Canada in 2012 and is just as foxy.

    Also, King Crimson was always quite metallic (cf. 21st Century Schizoid Man, Larks’ Tongues II, Red).
    And KC didn't invent fuzz guitar. And 70's Prog wasnt the first rock to use jazz drum styles. In fact Yes' 60's efforts were much more jazzy. Innovation in music was at its peak in the 60's. The 70's brought in more symphonic aspects to rock. 70's Prog really represented the first sophisticated use of the synthesizer, but not the first. I love today's production quality when heard in music that benefits from it. If the 70's prog acts could be transported in time to the present to record and produce those records digitally, it would be awesome. The compression of vinyl inhibited how much one could hear.
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    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavus Torabi View Post
    How many more of these circular threads covering the same ground before you just start the 'I have no interest in listening to music recorded after 1978' thread and have done with it?
    I get it. You like a narrow seam of music stuff made in the 70s. Glad it's working out for you.
    No, Kavus. You don't get it.

    Until we all agree with him, he lacks the complete satisfaction of knowing he is right and anyone who doesn't agree with him is wrong.

    I figured you had been here long enough to recognize that, but your basic good nature doesn't allow you to think so little of people.

    That's ok, I'll do it for you....

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    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Ok line up everyone, all you 'music died in 78' over to the left, all you 'modern music is as good as the 70's' over on the right. Quick head count, yup everyone is still where they were a year ago. Time to move on, nothing to see.

    Meanwhile I'll go back to listening to the pile of 70's stuff and modern stuff that arrived in the post this week, somewhat surprisingly I seem to be enjoying all of it.
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    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    I've never experienced circular threads on PE. I particularly enjoy the diversity of Yes threads.

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    Chronic Overspender zombywoof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skullhead View Post

    Maybe I am in a bad mood.
    Nope, you're pretty much always like this.

    Exactly what do you hope to accomplish by posting this same thread with slightly different words, time and time again?
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    There certainly are a lot more agenda driven posters on PE than there used to be. Whether you agree with any of those various agendas or not, it all gets a bit tiring, "running over the same old ground."
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    Member Brian Griffin's Avatar
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    "Agendas"?

    I dunno man, I'd rather open a thread and see someone post an honest opinion vs having my valuable time wasted on tiresome attempt after tiresome attempt at "humor"

    Esp when I agree with the opinion : )

    Stop picking on the dude

    BG
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    My two cents... I am 60 and of course 70's "prog" is what I listened to back in the day. Why else would I be on this forum, read posts, and occasionally post. Also I get GREAT info for new music. I agree with those who already said this topic gets way too much attention. That said, I DO NOT listen exclusively listen to 70's prog. I enjoy keeping up with the latest in prog offerings. If I was stuck and refused to budge from the 70's I would have missed all the excellent prog that has been offered since. You people who want to stay there is fine by me. I put you in the group who will only listen to Classic Rock radio. Stuck and stubborn. You're missing a ton of good stuff. As far a production from then and now is a matter of opinion. I will not go there. I could easily fill two pages worth of bands I listen to who are not "70's prog." and are young and active. I won't. I will continue to allow new stuff into my home as long as I have left on this planet. Lastly, I listen to what I like and enjoy including classical, jazz, metal, and some pop that's well done. I could listen to Yes, Opeth, Katatonia, Steven Wilson, Vespero, and The Horrors all in one day. And I don't care what anyone thinks about it. Is it so hard to enjoy new stuff and be a bit open minded? Get a 4x4, a strong chain and pull yourself out of the rut. ENJOY!!

  21. #21
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    I'm actually happy with people posting what they want to post, as long as it doesn't violate PE's rules, rather than trying to control other members of PE. My time's just as valuable as anyone else's, and I don't want to waste it analyzing everyone else's posts to decide if someone's done something wrong.

  22. #22
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    [There was no metal in the old prog.]

    Rush
    Uriah Heep
    King Crimson

    Plus stuff by DP, LZ and BS all had their share of prog elements and moments. Aside from that metal was not fully realized yet not to mention not as popular as it would become so such a statement is not really fair.

    As for the statement about jazz drumming well that's kind of hard to quantify although there very well could be a lot of truth in it.

    I will say this about the old prog and newer prog. Seventies prog seemed to take more chances and be further away from pop and mainstream rock then the current prog seems to be. In other words for the most part there seemed to be a wider gap between prog and regular rock then there is today(imo). A lot of todays bands(and more than in the seventies)seem to be wanting to cross over and have mainstream success where as back then it happened by accident. Then again a lot of this could be because the definition of prog has changed(more subgenres etc) and what is considered prog today would not have been considered prog back then.


    [Most prog guitarists seem to embrace the heavy metal distorted compressed guitar sound particularly for leads. The compression takes a lot of the players dynamic out of the music in my opinion. ]

    I actually agree with this. Not sure exactly when it first occurred but probably some time in the late 90's or early 00's. I'd say the influence of Dream Theater and later on Porcupine Tree and Opeth has something to do with that not to mention the big influence of prog metal and metal in general on modern prog. You can even hear it in bands like Magic Pie(they even use a whammy bar!!!) who aren't even prog metal at all. I've noticed it too. I would like to hear more bands that have a less metal or heavily distorted sound. Maybe the first time I really noticed this in an obvious way was with the Storm Season album by White Willow(who are not a prog metal band). On the other hand lots of prog bands try too hard to have a soaring Hackett or Rothery sound which isn't much better(or original). I guess they all have to be influenced by something though.

    [I feel like the 70's prog guitarists played much cleaner in general.]

    Maybe. It depends what you mean by clean. Clean as in less distortion? Yeah, I guess.
    Last edited by Digital_Man; 03-21-2015 at 01:01 PM.

  23. #23
    Can't we talk about something that isn't so divisive, like abortion?

  24. #24
    There was metal in prog, but not shred. The closest I can find is Holdsworth, but he's still legato-ing and not really shredding arpeggios all over the place. The entrance of Yngwie changed the music. Some Hackett bits here and there were sweeping, but not to the degree of DT and the bands that followed.

    Of course, this is only from what I've encountered.

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    It's not "agendas". Singular is agendum, plural is agenda.

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