Holdsworth: more or less annoying if he were a drummer?

[Mr. Logical]

jazz soloists usually take the melody of the song they're soloing on as the foundation of their solo.

"Usually"? No. Jazz soloists usually play freely over chord changes. Quoting the melody and extemporising on it is just one facet of jazz improvisation, not its main point.

[jkelman]

Equally delusional.

Agreed. I love AH as much as anyone, but to make such an empirical statement is over the top. Better to say "my favorite guitarist of all time." Which is what the OP really meant, whether he knew it or not.

In music there are ni "greatest anyythings. There can be "amongs the greatest," but that's as far as it goes.

[jkelman]

And I don't disagree. But I'm not much of a fan of his music. He always plays the same solo, regardless of the song.

Sorry...that's how it sounds to you, but is as untrue as him being the greatest guitarist of all time.

[jkelman]

That's the problem with jazz musicians in general. They have no ear for melody, constraint or structure. Very overated!

Here we go again, Rufus. Your great jazz generalizations. I'll address your comments with just a few examples each, for brevity.

Let's look at some jazz musicians who are intrinsically melodic - and who all deeply respect the heart of any song they play, even if at lightning speed in some cases:
Pat Metheny
John McLaughin (yup...intensely melodic, just at a high rate of speed)
Kurt Rosenwinkel
John Scofield
Bill Frisell
John Abercrombie
Arve Henriksen
Nils Petter Molvaer
Kenny Wheeler
Jon Balke
Paul McCandless
Steve Khan

As for constraint, not all jazz is about 19-20 minute soloing. Often it's restricted to shorter spaces and/or is very patiently thought out and executed, most often in a very compositional way even if it's being pulled out of the ether:
Maria Schneider (as writer)
Trygve Seim
Arve Henriksen
Nils Petter Molvaer
Jakob Bro
Kenny Wheeler
Per Jørgensen
Christine Jensen
Lyle Mays
Steve Khan (the veritable epitome)

Structure:
Pat Metheny
Darcy James Argue
Trygve Seim
Eberhard Weber
Kenny Wheeler
Partisans
Jon Balke
Terje Rypdal
Chris Potter
Hermeti Pascoal
Gary Burton


Rufus, everytime you open your mouth about jazz you demonstrate how little you know about it. You may not like it, and that's fine. But your broad-stroke generalizations are, to stick with the the of this thread, misinformed, uneducated...and annoying. Why not just keep out of these discussions? You never have anything to add other than the same old same old generalizations.

[chalkpie]

That's the problem with jazz musicians in general. They have no ear for melody, constraint or structure. Very overated!

Wow, this is the second stupidest thing said on this thread, yet manages to be as equally as stupid as the original post. Impressive!

[Steve F.]

[jkelman]

Or, perhaps, this video by Larry Goldiings' alter-ego Hans Groiner, who takes all the 'wrong notes' out of Thelonious Monk. Rufus might actually prefer this as it meets all his, um, criteria:

[No Pride]

jazz soloists usually take the melody of the song they're soloing on as the foundation of their solo. Players like Paul Desmond were famous for being able to take a melody and turn it upside down and inside out while soloing on it.

Like Mr. Logical said, the chord progression of the song is the foundation of a jazz solo, unless there isn't one, like in "free jazz" or in a modal jam, which has a tonal center but no chords. Playing around with the melody is a concept used in jazz, but far from the most prominent one. Paul Desmond was one of the most restrained soloists in jazz. Holdsworth's soloing is much more closely related to how John Coltrane played circa '58 to '62; the opposite end of the spectrum.

[JJ88]

Here we go again, Rufus. Your great jazz generalizations. I'll address your comments with just a few examples each, for brevity.

John, I've said before, don't bother. It's like banging your head against a brick wall.

For my part I can only handle Holdsworth in other bands.

[Poisoned Youth]

Don't feed the trolls.