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Thread: Digital or Vinyl?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by meimjustalawnmower View Post
    Like shooting fish in a barrel.
    oh can you teach me to fish too? Then I want to hear about what a "Master of Customer Service" you were back in the 1930's.

  2. #52
    Member Joe F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    Yeah, I'm way out of line.

    Ivinyl has made a pretty strong comeback over the past ten years or so not to mention that there are always going to be some people who will want and even demand a physical format.

    Oh and others can point out what they want but I think it's pretty apparent cds are slowly being phased out. Anyone who can't see that is just living in denial. That's not to say they will definitely disappear forever but the market is increasingly becoming smaller and smaller and it's very possible they will go the way of cassette tapes.
    While vinyl may be making a "comeback" it's still in relatively small quantities (500-10,000 copies). Not exactly setting the world on fire.

    I would imagine CDs will will be like this at some point and most likely already are in some cases.

  3. #53
    meimjustalawnmower
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    Quote Originally Posted by 80s were ok View Post
    oh can you teach me to fish too? Then I want to hear about what a "Master of Customer Service" you were back in the 1930's.
    You're killin' me dude.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by meimjustalawnmower View Post
    You're killin' me dude.
    so is your defense mechanism. You are just killing me dude.

    Last edited by 80s were ok; 12-22-2012 at 11:09 AM.

  5. #55
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe F. View Post
    While vinyl may be making a "comeback" it's still in relatively small quantities (500-10,000 copies). Not exactly setting the world on fire.

    I would imagine CDs will will be like this at some point and most likely already are in some cases.
    Indeed, maybe Prince or Radiohead are able to move 10 000 vinyls world-wide, but that's about it...
    I can't think of many bands that would sell half as many vinyls as they do CDs...

    Yeah, in the worst case scenario (and unless some other physical format comes to dramatically upstage it in the buying solid format poublic), CDs will indeed sell those reduced amounts... But in 10 years time if Muse is still around, they will still press CDs
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

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    Sean -- We REALLY need a spell-check option on this wonderful website.

  7. #57
    Member Brian Griffin's Avatar
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    My collection lives on my hard drive, in MP-3 format

    I played a physical CD once that I can remember in 2012, and have a less than zero desire to return to LP's

    The beyond absurd convenience of a prog jukebox available instantly on any of my home theaters, PC's, laptops, tablets, or droids more than makes up for what I feel is a negligible difference in sound quality

    BG
    "When Yes appeared on stage, it was like, the gods appearing from the heavens, deigning to play in front of the people."

  8. #58
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Griffin View Post
    My collection lives on my hard drive, in MP-3 format

    I played a physical CD once that I can remember in 2012, and have a less than zero desire to return to LP's

    The beyond absurd convenience of a prog jukebox available instantly on any of my home theaters, PC's, laptops, tablets, or droids more than makes up for what I feel is a negligible difference in sound quality

    BG

    Agree that the digital files are very convenient, and I too probably listen to that format more than anything, but I like having the physical product. Computers and hard drives are very fallible. It's nice to have the tangible backup.

    Not to mention that digital files have virtually no value whatsoever.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  9. #59
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    you can't get digital files autographed and then brag to people that you met so-and-so!

  10. #60
    I'm a vinyl fan, for sure and feel nothing compares to it. But, vinyl is not making a comeback. It has made a comeback from near-death to tepid sustainability, but at such a small niche that it's hardly what most would call "making a comeback." It's unfortunate, because vinyl has shown to have a longer life than any other format, which is saying something.

  11. #61
    Member Brian Griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 80s were ok View Post
    you can't get digital files autographed and then brag to people that you met so-and-so!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Not to mention that digital files have virtually no value whatsoever.
    I'll tell you what, I have been very lucky to have my David Bowie "Heroes" sign many items for me over the years - as far as CD's go out of the thousands I have these are really the only ones that hold ANY value to me at all at this point!

    BG
    "When Yes appeared on stage, it was like, the gods appearing from the heavens, deigning to play in front of the people."

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    I'm a vinyl fan, for sure and feel nothing compares to it. But, vinyl is not making a comeback. It has made a comeback from near-death to tepid sustainability, but at such a small niche that it's hardly what most would call "making a comeback." It's unfortunate, because vinyl has shown to have a longer life than any other format, which is saying something.
    I agree 100% and I am glad that I have taken great care of the record collection that I have been accruing during the last three decades plus. Every year that passes by there will be less and less vinyl available in decent shape. Twenty to twenty five years ago when everybody and their mother were replacing their record collection with CDs, there were tons of stores where you could get used LPs in pretty good shape for as low as quarter. Nowadays there are very few stores selling vinyl and the cheapest LPs are in the five dollar range and not always in the best shape.

    One issue that I have with a number of recent vinyl pressings of old material is that some labels are using digital mixes that were supposed to be used for CDs and not for LPs. This make the newer vinyl versions sound way worse than the original and most of the time worse than a "hot" CD. The record companies will release these newer pressings of old material in 180 and 200 gram virgin vinyl with elaborate gatefold packaging thinking that will compensate for the horrible mix on the acetate. Buyers beware.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Griffin View Post
    My collection lives on my hard drive, in MP-3 format

    I played a physical CD once that I can remember in 2012, and have a less than zero desire to return to LP's

    The beyond absurd convenience of a prog jukebox available instantly on any of my home theaters, PC's, laptops, tablets, or droids more than makes up for what I feel is a negligible difference in sound quality

    BG
    With storage space so cheap, I can't understand why limit yourself to a lossy copy of your music instead of lossless for your home system.

  14. #64
    Member Brian Griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enpdllp View Post
    With storage space so cheap, I can't understand why limit yourself to a lossy copy of your music instead of lossless for your home system.
    I've filled up 1, 1.5, and 2 TB drives, just with MP-3's as I've gone along

    True, when I started doing this I'd adopted 192 kps as the minimum and much of my early rips are still what I play, but now I use 320 kps as the default and I don't think there is any difference between a 320 rip vs a wav, at least to my 50 year old plus ears

    MP's work everywhere, the PC's drive as well as the various I-pods

    BG
    "When Yes appeared on stage, it was like, the gods appearing from the heavens, deigning to play in front of the people."

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    Vinyl does not sound better than CD, that's a fact. Vinyl has a limited bandwidth, some like the sound of the medium but it is not neutral at all.
    So, some prog rock albums haven't been reissed on CD yet, i have no choice but to buy it on vinyl.
    For example Jean Luc Chevalier – Dromadaire, Yochk'o Seffer - Délire, Jacques Thollot – Résurgence, Benoit Widemann – Stress

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludovico View Post
    Vinyl does not sound better than CD, that's a fact
    Fact? Pffffffffffffffft
    “Pleasure and pain can be experienced simultaneously,” she said, gently massaging my back as we listened to her Coldplay CD.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chain View Post
    Fact? Pffffffffffffffft
    Yes this is a fact. I am happy that most sound engineers agree with that and release albums in CD.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludovico View Post
    Vinyl does not sound better than CD, that's a fact.
    a fact that is impossible to prove. Everyone hears things differently. If you have bad-ass equipment, vinyl will sound better.

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludovico View Post
    Vinyl does not sound better than CD, that's a fact.
    Facts can be proven with data. Where's yours? It seems to me that the audiophiles claim vinyl has a warmer sound than CDs, which is considered better.

    Vinyl records use a needle in a groove to create sound vibrations that are amplified to create waves that create vibrations in the ear and convert them into sound. It's all analog and seems pretty natural. CDs try to digitally emulate the same natural phenomena with a series of 1s and 0s. Seems pretty unnatural to me.

  20. #70
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    Here are some things Ive pulled off the internet. Facts? That question is up to you to decide:

    vinyl 75 db dynamic range. vocal sibilance more pronounced (tape is the best media for reduced sibilance)

    treble - you can put as much on cd as you want. vinyl is limited

    due to mastering matters, vinyl cannot handle deep bass. it lacks bass. digital can go real low with resolution (Personally I feel strongly that tape medium is the best for bass, especially on 7 and a half inch, in-line heads , reel to reel systems)


    tight grooves - especially as you approach center of record - results in stylus "hydro-planing" which = distortion. (That is why proper engineers put the quiet tracks on the end of each lp side.)

    on vinyl, under 20 minute recording times give best sound. Again , an example of flawed medium limiting what you can get out of it. Irrefutable physical limitation


    vinyl engineer has much more shit to contend with than cd one does


    to have safer more extended vinyl sides, the drums and bass have to be cut in the center. This means , at the expense of decent sound, in the vinyl medium panning is heavy handedly confined/impeded.


    as to vinyl reissues - most suffer from decreased harmonic integrity, most noteably in the mid-range


    misleading to say that with cds a portion of sound is lost: cd sound is perfectly re-created as long as it is below 22050 hz (Nyquist Shannon sampling theorm). Above this the lost info SIMPLY CANNOT BE DISCERNED (since not many humans can hear above 19000 hz)

    also cd will not play above 22 khz since anti-aliasing filter removes all above.


    Sorry, I dont recall where I pulled this all from.

  21. #71
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    It's unfortunate, because vinyl has shown to have a longer life than any other format, which is saying something.
    Can you expand on this?

    Without getting into the pointless "audio quality discussion," I've always thought that CDs were by far more durable than vinyl.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Can you expand on this?

    Without getting into the pointless "audio quality discussion," I've always thought that CDs were by far more durable than vinyl.
    I'm not talking about durability of material (and CD life expectancy is questionable), I'm talking about longevity of format. After all the new formats over the decades, vinyl still survives. That flat rotating disc with grooves (which wasn't always vinyl) has been around for well over 100 years. I would not expect CDs to be around another 70 years.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    I've always thought that CDs were by far more durable than vinyl.
    Not necessarily true. Have you ever heard of CD rot or CD bronzing?

    CDRs and CDRWs have an even shorter life expectancy than "silver" discs.

  24. #74
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    I'm not talking about durability of material (and CD life expectancy is questionable), I'm talking about longevity of format. After all the new formats over the decades, vinyl still survives. That flat rotating disc with grooves (which wasn't always vinyl) has been around for well over 100 years. I would not expect CDs to be around another 70 years.
    there were vinyls in (or before) 1912??

    Quote Originally Posted by enpdllp View Post
    Not necessarily true. Have you ever heard of CD rot or CD bronzing?

    CDRs and CDRWs have an even shorter life expectancy than "silver" discs.
    CDs: Very limited problems, long ago fixed...

    And if some buddies have had problems with CD-rs, I haven't had any problems, YET!!!
    OK, I systematically used a hi-fi CD burner writing at the nominal speed using music-only CDrs

    Not saying it won't happen to me.... but it's over 10 years I started doing these Cd-rs... and I've yet to have one go bad... Though a buddy of mine lso recotrds CDrs the same way, and he's got those black discs simulatings vinyls... got a few of those too, but they're still playing.... But these are notoriously crap
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post

    CDs: Very limited problems, long ago fixed...

    And if some buddies have had problems with CD-rs, I haven't had any problems, YET!!!
    OK, I systematically used a hi-fi CD burner writing at the nominal speed using music-only CDrs

    Not saying it won't happen to me.... but it's over 10 years I started doing these Cd-rs... and I've yet to have one go bad... Though a buddy of mine lso recotrds CDrs the same way, and he's got those black discs simulatings vinyls... got a few of those too, but they're still playing.... But these are notoriously crap
    Although most of the manufacturing problems that led to CD rot were addressed, there are still many of those CDs out there plus a lot of CD rot is induced by folks that leave their CDs in their cars when the weather is hot. Heat breaks down some of the adhesives and chemicals used on CD manufacturing and allows other outside factors like humidity to wreak havoc on CDs. On CDRs, the layer used to hold the information on the disc is not as sturdy as on the silver discs. In some cases the dye used in the data layer is very sensitive to U/V rays. Every time I see a car with one of those visor CD holders, I hope the visor is filled with CDs with the latest pop crap.

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