New VDGG BBC sessions release- out March 23

[calyx]

Oct 24, 1977 (The Box)
8. Cat's Eye / Yellow Fever 4:45
9. The Sphinx In The Face 5:33

1977??
10. Fragments of) A Plague Of Lighthouse Keepers / Sleepwalkers

I have the latter in excellent sound quality from a bootleg. Supposedly it's also from the 24 October 1977 session, and is 9:25 long.

[JKL2000]

Unreleased: Disc One - tracks 8, 10, 11, 12; Disc Two - just track 10. Many appeared on the Maida Vale cd, and on the VdGG box set Virgin put out 15 yrs ago. But it's nice to have them all in one place.

If the cover art is more interesting than the cover of the Maida Vale CD it'll be worth it.

[Bucka001]

I wonder why they didnt release the epidemic of father christmas

I think they would have loved to but it's long lost/gone. The only version is a crap sounding tape that is on Youtube and elsewhere. At lease it is listenable, though, and we can hear the tune. Wasn't there a fire or a flood or something years ago that destroyed much of the BBC vault, and lots of these radio sessions were lost? I feel like I heard something along those lines years ago.

The big attraction here is the BBC In Concert 1971 selections at the end of Disc One: Man Erg/W/Killer. I wonder if they've managed to source an original Transcription Disc for this, or even the master tape.

Yeah, this session was on a vinyl boot called Fellow Travellers. It was the first live VdGG I'd ever heard. Back in '82, a friend knew I was into VdGG and kept telling me that a friend of his had a live VdGG boot. This friend was prone to outright lying/exaggeration so I never believed it. Then one day he brought a cassette to class. There was one of those filmstrip projectors in the classroom, the kind that also had a cassette tape player for audio. It was a few minutes before the bell rang, the teacher wasn't in the room yet. We popped it on. Faded in applause. Then the first few piano chords of Man-Erg, and I knew it was legit. I totally freaked, as VdGG were my new fave band but they were so damned enigmatic to a high schooler in '82 in a suburb of Chicago. The prospect of ever hearing any live stuff was remote. And there it was. I shut off the tape within a few seconds, right when the teacher walked in. We got yelled at, but it was worth it. Brought the tape home and was blown away. The version of Killer is, to this day, one of the best recordings of VdGG in my eyes. Man-Erg is played exactly like the album (uncharacteristic of VdGG; an extremely together, tight version). And there are skips in every version of this session on the song M-E. I'm guessing they've sorted that out for this official release.

[JJ88]

Although they've certainly made up for it in later years, there are pitifully few recordings of the band in their 70s prime in comparison to other prog bands. So this is a major release, in terms of having so much live material in one place.

[Bucka001]

Although they've certainly made up for it in later years, there are pitifully few recordings of the band in their 70s prime in comparison to other prog bands. So this is a major release, in terms of having so much live material in one place.

At least they were bootlegged a lot...

[Bucka001]

There are some decent sounding boots (Brecia, Italy '72; New Victoria Theatre, London '75; NYC '76; etc) that at least give a picture of what they sounded like live.

[flytomars]

There are some decent sounding boots (Brecia, Italy '72; New Victoria Theatre, London '75; NYC '76; etc) that at least give a picture of what they sounded like live.

True, but this picture is blurry and only give a taste for what we were missing
Though I heard about 50 live 70s vdgg shows in crappy quality and attending several latter day vdgg shows-
There is still that roller-coaster feeling in the air and when it works it is more electrifying then anything I have heard on a bootleg 70s show.

[Bucka001]

True, but this picture is blurry and only give a taste for what we were missing
Though I heard about 50 live 70s vdgg shows in crappy quality and attending several latter day vdgg shows-
There is still that roller-coaster feeling in the air and when it works it is more electrifying then anything I have heard on a bootleg 70s show.

Yeah, don't get me wrong... I wish there was some pro-recorded concert stuff from the 70s. But the band was so enigmatic to me, like how do they perform without a bass guitarist, how can the bass pedals cover that when they play live? What songs would they have done, etc etc etc. So, when I discovered Pawn Hearts (the N American appreciation society) I bought up all the boots I could. While the sound on many of those 70s boots leaves a lot to be desired, the vibe on a lot of them comes through. For instance, it's a shame that a lot of VdGG fans don't know how funny/bizarre Hammill could be on stage with his between-song banter around the '76 era. Elvis impersonations, weird American voice imitations, the screams of Wella Wella Wella before Meurglys... just funny weird stuff. And the band was chaotic, and it comes across. So, a lot of questions were answered for me with those boots (helped me to write a book actually ;-) ) even though the sound quality wasn't as good as it could have been. Man, I ate those things up in my (VdGG obsessed) youth.

[Bucka001]

...One boot that is around and is really good quality, and gives a good idea of the World Record '76 band when they performed live on stage, is an FM broadcast from Paris, December '76. It was on Dime a while ago, maybe it still is. Full versions of When She Comes and Still Life in *great* sound quality. Still Life is the best, most rocking version I've heard (when the band kicks in, obv!). I have this whole concert on a boot cassette tape (terrible sound quality); the FM discovery of those two tunes was a revelation. Check out Dime for Paris '76, well worth it (on an old cassette, I also have the FM broadcast of Lemmings from this show but that didn't seem to make it to Dime; at any rate, Lemmings gets cut off half way through by the deejay, maybe that's why no one posted it).

[Beebfader]

[QUOTE=Bucka001;381107] Wasn't there a fire or a flood or something years ago that destroyed much of the BBC vault, and lots of these radio sessions were lost? I feel like I heard something along those lines years ago.

No, just general apathy and the complete lack of any archiving system whatsoever. Much of the stuff was just junked. The BBC didn't have a proper session archive until my friend Phil Lawton was given permission to set one up as a special project in 1988, remarkable though that may seem. Luckily programme producers like Tony Wilson and John Walters did manage to hang on to some of their best sessions which were eventually made safe, but a lot were tragically lost.

"This session was on a vinyl boot called Fellow Travellers....there are skips in every version of this session on the song Man-Erg. I'm guessing they've sorted that out for this official release"

It was originally pressed onto BBC only Transcription Discs for foreign use, the bootleg will have come from a transfer of one of those. The original concert tape is not in the BBC archive, but MAY be in the BBC Transcription department archive. Yes, for every concert programme they did, TWO engineers would turn up, one to do a Mono mix for radio, the second to take away a stereo mix for the Transcription Service. Hopefully they have either found a clean pressing of the disc, or the master tape itself. The Transcription Service seem to have been a lot more diligent in keeping an archive.

[Bucka001]

[QUOTE=Beebfader;381217]

Wasn't there a fire or a flood or something years ago that destroyed much of the BBC vault, and lots of these radio sessions were lost? I feel like I heard something along those lines years ago.

No, just general apathy and the complete lack of any archiving system whatsoever. Much of the stuff was just junked. The BBC didn't have a proper session archive until my friend Phil Lawton was given permission to set one up as a special project in 1988, remarkable though that may seem. Luckily programme producers like Tony Wilson and John Walters did manage to hang on to some of their best sessions which were eventually made safe, but a lot were tragically lost.

"This session was on a vinyl boot called Fellow Travellers....there are skips in every version of this session on the song Man-Erg. I'm guessing they've sorted that out for this official release"

It was originally pressed onto BBC only Transcription Discs for foreign use, the bootleg will have come from a transfer of one of those. The original concert tape is not in the BBC archive, but MAY be in the BBC Transcription department archive. Yes, for every concert programme they did, TWO engineers would turn up, one to do a Mono mix for radio, the second to take away a stereo mix for the Transcription Service. Hopefully they have either found a clean pressing of the disc, or the master tape itself. The Transcription Service seem to have been a lot more diligent in keeping an archive.

Good stuff! :-)

[Beebfader]

Good to be able to impart some insider information from time to time, even though it's a good few years since I worked for Auntie Beeb :-)

[JJ88]

No, just general apathy and the complete lack of any archiving system whatsoever. Much of the stuff was just junked. The BBC didn't have a proper session archive until my friend Phil Lawton was given permission to set one up as a special project in 1988, remarkable though that may seem.

Sounds all too likely to me. The BBC were notoriously cavalier about even keeping the material let alone setting up an archiving system, as obviously you'd know all too well. There was the story a few years back about the David Bowie TOTP 'Jean Genie', played fully live with the Spiders From Mars. This was typically not kept by the BBC, and was so rare some fans even questioned it had even happened. Some fans/experts heard a cameraman who worked on it on the radio casually talking about how he had taken a pristine copy of it, clearly not realising how rare it was. And sure enough, after some investigation, it was *that* performance. Who knows what else is hanging around in people's own personal archives.

[Bucka001]

Sounds all too likely to me. The BBC were notoriously cavalier about even keeping the material let alone setting up an archiving system, as obviously you'd know all too well. There was the story a few years back about the David Bowie TOTP 'Jean Genie', played fully live with the Spiders From Mars. This was typically not kept by the BBC, and was so rare some fans even questioned it had even happened. Some fans/experts heard a cameraman who worked on it on the radio casually talking about how he had taken a pristine copy of it, clearly not realising how rare it was. And sure enough, after some investigation, it was *that* performance. Who knows what else is hanging around in people's own personal archives.

Yeah, apparently a lot of historic BBC stuff is lost forever, but a story like this gives one hope. There was a TV show in '70/'71 on BBC2 called Disco 2, which had VdGG on it (miming, apparently, to House With No Door) and Genesis (the only appearance with Mick Barnard, the interim guitarist between Ant and Hackett). Lots of others on that show, but no trace of any of it as far as I know.

[JJ88]

The standard thing then was to do backing track with live vocals. 'Disco 2' was a successor to 'Colour Me Pop' and a precursor to 'The Old Grey Whistle Test'. The line-ups on those late 60s/early 70s shows are mindboggling, full of legendary acts.

[Bucka001]

The standard thing then was to do backing track with live vocals. 'Disco 2' was a successor to 'Colour Me Pop' and a precursor to 'The Old Grey Whistle Test'. The line-ups on those late 60s/early 70s shows are mindboggling, full of legendary acts.

What are the odds that some cameraman or crew member (like the one in your anecdote) has the series privately?

[Pekka]

I'd love to get a good sounding board recording from '75 when they played all of the "Godbluff" plus previews from "Still Life" and even "Urban" not forgetting Hammill solo stuff like "Faint-Heart & The Sermon" and "Forsaken Gardens". Any pointers to which bootleg I should search?

The BBC double is a n auto-buy even 'though I have "The Box" and "Maida-Vale". Hammill's own "The Peel Sessions" is great too but needs also an expansion.

[Bucka001]

I'd love to get a good sounding board recording from '75 when they played all of the "Godbluff" plus previews from "Still Life" and even "Urban" not forgetting Hammill solo stuff like "Faint-Heart & The Sermon" and "Forsaken Gardens". Any pointers to which bootleg I should search?

The BBC double is a n auto-buy even 'though I have "The Box" and "Maida-Vale". Hammill's own "The Peel Sessions" is great too but needs also an expansion.

The New Victoria, London show from August '75 is pretty good (there was a boot CD of that which had much of the show called One More Heaven Gained, but the whole show also exists). There are others, I'd have to look at the lists to see what I remember being worthwhile.

Re: Urban from '75. One time in the last two or three years, Banton and Hammill, during a round-robin email with me, were talking about the Maida Vale cover (where it shows both Hammill and HB playing guitars, HB on bass gtr) and couldn't figure out what they would have been playing. They didn't remember anything from their repertoire where that configuration would exist, so they asked if I knew what it would be (me being the nerdy quasi-historian). Well, at a few concerts they did encore with Urban (which would see the light of day finally on Vital, three years later and with a radically diff lineup that didn't include HB) which would seque into the last few bars of Nadir's Big Chance. That was the one tune where HB played bass guitar and PH played electric. And, of course, HB didn't remember Urban at all and had no idea how it went. Hell, it was decades ago and they only played it a few times...

[Pekka]

The New Victoria, London show from August '75 is pretty good (there was a boot CD of that which had much of the show called One More Heaven Gained, but the whole show also exists). There are others, I'd have to look at the lists to see what I remember being worthwhile.

Re: Urban from '75. One time in the last two or three years, Banton and Hammill, during a round-robin email with me, were talking about the Maida Vale cover (where it shows both Hammill and HB playing guitars, HB on bass gtr) and couldn't figure out what they would have been playing. They didn't remember anything from their repertoire where that configuration would exist, so they asked if I knew what it would be (me being the nerdy quasi-historian). Well, at a few concerts they did encore with Urban (which would see the light of day finally on Vital, three years later and with a radically diff lineup that didn't include HB) which would seque into the last few bars of Nadir's Big Chance. That was the one tune where HB played bass guitar and PH played electric. And, of course, HB didn't remember Urban at all and had no idea how it went. Hell, it was decades ago and they only played it a few times...

Thanks for the boot info.

I've always wondered about that pic too. Hugh played bass also on "Arrow" but PH played Clavinet on it and the bass was also used on "Forsaken Gardens" but Hammill was on keys on that one too. I haven't listened to a VDGG live version of "Louse" for a while so I can't recall if they used a bass guitar on it too.

Was there any songs from "A World Record" that featured two guitars? There's a pic from '76 on "The Book" which shows Hugh with a Fender Jazz in place of the short scale Mustang they used earlier (and Hammill continued to use on his albums).

[Bucka001]

I haven't listened to a VDGG live version of "Louse" for a while so I can't recall if they used a bass guitar on it too.

Was there any songs from "A World Record" that featured two guitars? There's a pic from '76 on "The Book" which shows Hugh with a Fender Jazz in place of the short scale Mustang they used earlier (and Hammill continued to use on his albums).

Louse always sounded to me like HB played bass guitar for the first part and then switched to the organ mid way through. I'll ask him.

That pic where Hugh has the Fender Jazz (and the shades, right?) would be from '75 I think. I know the pic but can't actually remember if it's in The Book (and I co-wrote it!)

[Brian Griffin]

Is there a site that recaps the various bootlegs?

I have BBC 70, BBC 71, Complete BBC Sessions (2 CD), and Generators

Some of the songs on the upcoming release seem to match up, but the times obviously do not

Just curious to whet my appetite and see what will actually be completely new to me

BG

[zombywoof]

I'm in.

[Progatron]

The Book (and I co-wrote it!)

I've been reading the Kindle edition of this (wanted the hard copy for years but the shipping was astronomical), and been thoroughly enjoying it. I had no idea that "Voyage Of The Acolyte" was Stratton-Smith's idea for a Hugh Banton solo album before Steve Hackett eventually did it! That was a surprise to me. Excellent read, and a must for any VDGG fan!

[Bucka001]

I've been reading the Kindle edition of this (wanted the hard copy for years but the shipping was astronomical), and been thoroughly enjoying it. I had no idea that "Voyage Of The Acolyte" was Stratton-Smith's idea for a Hugh Banton solo album before Steve Hackett eventually did it! That was a surprise to me. Excellent read, and a must for any VDGG fan!

Thanks!

[flytomars]

Bucka001 said:
"The New Victoria, London show from August '75 is pretty good (there was a boot CD of that which had much of the show called One More Heaven Gained, but the whole show also exists)."

I love that show!! it was one of the first bootlegs I heard and it is a fantastic document (sound is just OK but enough for the magic to sip thru)