Being particularly fond of Karda Estra’s contribution to The Exquisite Corpse Game, I was wondering which of their albums would be a good starting point?
Being particularly fond of Karda Estra’s contribution to The Exquisite Corpse Game, I was wondering which of their albums would be a good starting point?
"Dem Glücklichen legt auch der Hahn ein Ei."
Um... I'm trying to think of an album that would NOT be a good starting point, and I can't think of one. Of course, there's the new one, 'Strange Relations' which is a bit of a departure in that we have Paul Sears (The Muffins) on drums, but it's such a great album. I'd say my favorite, but it is still fresh and all, so its hard to be subjective.
Thanks 100 and Bill.
Off the top of my head, an obvious answer is that the Exquisite Corpse track was recorded between two albums - 'New Worlds' (2011) and 'Mondo Profondo' (2013). I released a 2 on 1 album CD with both these albums (also on Believers Roast) so that is the big brother to the 'Fold 2' track:
https://kardaestra.bandcamp.com/album/mondo-profondo-2
KE has quite a big discography now so I'll try and come up with bit of a guide to the phases over the weekend. Don't let that put anyone saying their favourites or least favourites though. I'd be all ears
Richard
Ok, here's my 'guide':
1998 - 2000 - 'A Winter In Summertime', 'Thirteen From The Twenty First' plus the first two Land Of Ghosts compilations (last two not in print at the moment, thinking of doing a ltd release soonish). New project, lots of trying different things including low budget soundtracks, chamber music and gothic / surrealist album suites. Exciting, fun memories. Yielded some of my favourite tunes still (like 'Dorothea's Nightmusic' and 'John Deth'). I wouldn't really start with anything from this phase but if you had to, I would recommend the 'Thirteen From....' album.
2001 - 2006 - 'Eve', 'Constellations', 'Voivode Dracula' and 'The Age Of Science & Enlightenment'. This is really the 'classic' Karda. I know, I know - it's silly saying that when I have no level of fame or fortune but bare with me... I distilled what I percieved were all the best ideas of the first phase and came up with the 'Eve' concept album (based on a proto 1886 gothic Bride Of Frankenstein type novella called 'The Future Eve' by Villiers L'Isle Adam). Also went back to the Cyclops label. BIG NOTE - this is nothing like what normally got released on Cyclops!!! (Or any other label in my not so humble opinion) Got quite a lot of reviews and interest in this one - it was in the days when KE got quite a few pages on PE - where have all the old members gone??? haha). The follow up 'Constellations' got as much attention, maybe more. Next up was 'Voivode Dracula' (based on Bram Stokers novel) and I was on roll. Maybe this album was a bit tougher but it needed to be for the subject matter. Didn't lose too many listeners along the way - The Dracula Society loved it!! 'The Age Of Science & Enlightenment' wrapped up this phase I guess. It took longer and was the most concentrated effort in composing I'd done. Whilst it revisited some ideas, I still think on most days, it's the 'best' or maybe most unique album I've done. I also suspect few would agree with that. I also did a collaboration with Artemiy Artemiev called 'Equilibrium' (in 2002) which was more of an electronic/electro acoustic album that I'm proud of but is really very different to the regular KE. Anyhow, there is no doubt that these albums got/get the most attention.
2007 - 2013 - the Mondo phase. I'd kind of decided that I'd done enough KE (in the mould I'd been working) but various chance meetings with other players and composers along the way inspired new albums, so I felt like there was still some evolution & change and a reason to do it. And although always present, I started putting more mondo soundtrack and library music influences into the writing as this is the kind of music that inspires me most these days. So 'The Last Of The Libertine' mainly came about because I met trumpet player Louise Hirst. 'Weird Tales' (Paul Sears favourite of mine, btw) had more new players plus I collaborated with Don & Bridget from Spirits Burning. 'New Worlds' and 'Mondo Profondo' had all kinds of collaborations (Kavus - Knifeworld, Matt - Sanguine Hum, Phil - Thieves' Kitchen, Dev - Stop Motion Orch etc etc) as well as me stretching the limits of what I could do and it still be recognisable as me - so you get cosmic lounge bossa novas next to HP Lovecraft inspired doomery and gloomery.
2014 - now. 'Paul Sears era'. Paul Sears persuades me to do some more and 'Strange Relations' is born. Another nice experiment that came out well, I think. Lots of great, complex drumming that gave me some more nice David Axelrod / Lalo Schifin vibes to compose to - well, that's how it seemed to me. We're already collaborating on more at the moment, plus I've one or two other little ideas that may surface. Has made me glad that the project has been able to continue with even more evolution and change.
I hope this is of help. You can pretty much hear everything between Spotify and Bandcamp so dig in at points that you think may be relevant. A caveat. It's chord / harmony progressions, atmospheres and arrangements which dominate. Although KE can 'rock' in it's own way and does have lots of melodies, they are usually brooding, often melancholy even in the brightest sunshine parts and you have to be prepared to expect the unexpected. As I said earlier, please bare with me. Waffle over.
Last edited by Karda Estra; 02-28-2015 at 07:45 AM.
One Karda Estra title in particular that will always remain timeless and hauntingly beautiful is "Eve". I have played Karda Estra for people who are NOT necessarily interested in Prog and they gave a positive reaction to the music. All the Karda Estra titles are unique and intriguing, but "Eve" is in a world of it's own. "Eve" is such a beautiful work of art and to a degree words cannot truly define the composition. I love every Karda Estra release, but "Eve" stands alone.
Wow - delighted you feel that way - especially about the 'Eve' album, Enid - thank you. I remember writing and recording it very well actually. It was a moment of clarity after a frustrating year trying various experiments with too many wrong or not quite developed enough turns. I did get the feeling I was on to something new and interesting when it finally all started to gel. There were originally 1000 CDs pressed up. There's only 34 left, so a rarity soon for hard copy collectors. Will still be available to stream/download after of course.Originally Posted by Enid
Richard
Hey Karda Estra, thank you very much for taking the time to pen this detailed “user’s guide”. This is very helpful indeed – bookmarked for future reference.Ok, here's my 'guide':
1998 - 2000 - 'A Winter In Summertime', 'Thirteen From The Twenty First' plus the first two Land Of Ghosts compilations (last two not in print at the moment, thinking of doing a ltd release soonish). New project, lots of trying different things including low budget soundtracks, chamber music and gothic / surrealist album suites. Exciting, fun memories. Yielded some of my favourite tunes still (like 'Dorothea's Nightmusic' and 'John Deth'). I wouldn't really start with anything from this phase but if you had to, I would recommend the 'Thirteen From....' album.
2001 - 2006 - 'Eve', 'Constellations', 'Voivode Dracula' and 'The Age Of Science & Enlightenment'. This is really the 'classic' Karda. I know, I know - it's silly saying that when I have no level of fame or fortune but bare with me... I distilled what I percieved were all the best ideas of the first phase and came up with the 'Eve' concept album (based on a proto 1886 gothic Bride Of Frankenstein type novella called 'The Future Eve' by Villiers L'Isle Adam). Also went back to the Cyclops label. BIG NOTE - this is nothing like what normally got released on Cyclops!!! (Or any other label in my not so humble opinion
2007 - 2013 - the Mondo phase. I'd kind of decided that I'd done enough KE (in the mould I'd been working) but various chance meetings with other players and composers along the way inspired new albums, so I felt like there was still some evolution & change and a reason to do it. And although always present, I started putting more mondo soundtrack and library music influences into the writing as this is the kind of music that inspires me most these days. So 'The Last Of The Libertine' mainly came about because I met trumpet player Louise Hirst. 'Weird Tales' (Paul Sears favourite of mine, btw) had more new players plus I collaborated with Don & Bridget from Spirits Burning. 'New Worlds' and 'Mondo Profondo' had all kinds of collaborations (Kavus - Knifeworld, Matt - Sanguine Hum, Phil - Thieves' Kitchen, Dev - Stop Motion Orch etc etc) as well as me stretching the limits of what I could do and it still be recognisable as me - so you get cosmic lounge bossa novas next to HP Lovecraft inspired doomery and gloomery.
2014 - now. 'Paul Sears era'. Paul Sears persuades me to do some more and 'Strange Relations' is born. Another nice experiment that came out well, I think. Lots of great, complex drumming that gave me some more nice David Axelrod / Lalo Schifin vibes to compose to - well, that's how it seemed to me. We're already collaborating on more at the moment, plus I've one or two other little ideas that may surface. Has made me glad that the project has been able to continue with even more evolution and change.
I hope this is of help. You can pretty much hear everything between Spotify and Bandcamp so dig in at points that you think may be relevant. A caveat. It's chord / harmony progressions, atmospheres and arrangements which dominate. Although KE can 'rock' in it's own way and does have lots of melodies, they are usually brooding, often melancholy even in the brightest sunshine parts and you have to be prepared to expect the unexpected. As I said earlier, please bare with me. Waffle over.
I’ve just bought The Age of Science & Enlightenment from your bandcamp site and will sink my teeth into that this week...
Last edited by at least 100 dead; 03-01-2015 at 03:42 PM.
"Dem Glücklichen legt auch der Hahn ein Ei."
You're welcome, 100 - glad it helps. And many thanks for trying 'Age', of course.
Your music is very visual for me. I am under the impression that you compose all of the music. Does this mean that in most cases you are composing the notes for IIeesha Bailey to sing? For example, did you write out the entire vocal part for "Lucy-Festina Lente" on manuscript paper and submit it to IIeesha Bailey and then rehearsed? Some people have compared you to Steve Hackett and I just don't hear it at all, it makes little sense to me and my love for your music is based off the total originality of your style in composition. I've heard snippets of a Steve Hackett influence in your guitar playing, but lasting no longer than seconds. When you compose, are you a composer that revolves all your activities around the science of music or do you also experiment with composition by surrounding yourself with nature? Some musicians that have years of experience at improvising and composing are jaded with the science of music and their unconscious ability to produce unique music is often attributed to the existence and influence of another world. Examples seem to be deep-rooted, connecting it's source of inspiration to the spirit world or the supernatural. In other cases...Angels. In further observation, it has been noted by skeptics that the musician is so great...that he/she is very bored and imagines another world to escape what is relevant. There could be a variety of reasons why you are such an original composer , but in any event, I've always been curious about the natural steps you took while developing your style. I'm just being honest. Your music is rare because you never seem to emulate anyone, any music of the past...and that is priceless in this world. IIeesha Bailey is the most intriguing and unique vocalist I've heard and over time, there hasn't been a considerable amount of vocalists with her skill and complete innovative style. She really compliments your music. Everytime Bill Bruford joined a band, the sound OF that band would change as opposed to other fine drummers who were role playing. IIeesha Bailey is more naturally universal as a vocalist and can change the sound of a band or a composer's piece and so the entire Karda Estra unit is in a world of it's own.
Last edited by Enid; 03-02-2015 at 02:26 PM.
I'm with you Enid on the Hackett comparison, (and nice post by the way). Way way different style and feel from any Hackett album in my opinion. Could just be that KE covered Hackett's 'Twice Around The Sun' on the 'Constellations' album, and maybe that's the point of reference. Richard's composition is much denser, more chords and such, which always makes me happy
Hi Enid - I'll answer as best I can
Yes I compose and arrange all the music (with the obvious exception of co-writes with other collaborators - which I tend to be very laid back and open about what others contribute so as to get the best out of them). But yes, in the main, I do all the instrument arrangements, including vocals. Ileesha (my wife), doesn't read music but I'm able to sing or play the parts to her and she records them down pretty quickly, even when things get pretty angular. No rehearsal as such, just straight into it and keep the best of a few takes. The recording process is a large amount of multi-tracking and bouncing down, experimenting on the fly and building up the layers of sound like oil on canvas. This having to commit really focuses the mind, although I do a lot of prep, arrangement-wise for the classical musician parts. It's a bit like a sponge cake - I do the foundations, then get other players to do the filling/top, then I add my sprinklings again when all the sessions are done.
As for guitar, yes I have influences but when I started Karda Estra , I knew composing was the main focus. I purposely tried to stop thinking as a guitarist and start thinking as a composer. If I'm trying to convey the other-wordly / something untouchable / beyond, it's a bit of drag to be suddenly reminded of some riff from the 70's - kind of spoils the moment! Guitar is still obviously important in what I do but I'm happy to throw it in where it's not comfortable. I don't say I avoid all the clichés but I try my best.
As for how I compose / why KE sounds like it does / visual aspects ...
When I was in my teens, I saw a film of Segovia explaining how his life had been one ascending line - implying how had been able to focus and improve to master level the technique of classical guitar without distraction. I was very envious of this as I on the other hand was distracted and my time was split over many different things - art, music, anything! and I continued to be into my 20s. When I started KE, mainly due to the fact that I could afford a home studio on 1997, I could finally combine all my music, art, film, literature etc interests (as well as yet untried musical ambitions) into one single idea. In a weird way, I felt I was finally on one of those ascending lines, all my interests combined and focused with maybe a chance to go into uncharted territory (for me anyhow).
I really am not too sure how the composing works or comes out the way it does without just detailing techniques / methods which would probably be missing the point. I know I find it difficult and hard work and I'm often compelled to do it as opposed to enjoy it. I do love it though, even though it sends me nuts. I'm sure this is the same for many. Harmony was always my first love, still is and is the tool I use to construct everything else around. If it's done right, it opens doors into the unknown. Very powerful. The rest is just experiment, experiment, experiment until I've got something I couldn't naturally come up with off the top of my head.
Maybe I should leave it there - some of what I've done has been special for you (and that pleases me no end
Richard
Hi Enid - I'll answer as best I can
Yes I compose and arrange all the music (with the obvious exception of co-writes with other collaborators - which I tend to be very laid back and open about what others contribute so as to get the best out of them). But yes, in the main, I do all the instrument arrangements, including vocals. Ileesha (my wife), doesn't read music but I'm able to sing or play the parts to her and she records them down pretty quickly, even when things get pretty angular. No rehearsal as such, just straight into it and keep the best of a few takes. The recording process is a large amount of multi-tracking and bouncing down, experimenting on the fly and building up the layers of sound like oil on canvas. This having to commit really focuses the mind, although I do a lot of prep, arrangement-wise for the classical musician parts. It's a bit like a sponge cake - I do the foundations, then get other players to do the filling/top, then I add my sprinklings again when all the sessions are done.
As for guitar, yes I have influences but when I started Karda Estra , I knew composing was the main focus. I purposely tried to stop thinking as a guitarist and start thinking as a composer. If I'm trying to convey the other-wordly / something untouchable / beyond, it's a bit of drag to be suddenly reminded of some riff from the 70's - kind of spoils the moment! Guitar is still obviously important in what I do but I'm happy to throw it in where it's not comfortable. I don't say I avoid all the clichés but I try my best.
As for how I compose / why KE sounds like it does / visual aspects ...
When I was in my teens, I saw a film of Segovia explaining how his life had been one ascending line - implying how had been able to focus and improve to master level the technique of classical guitar without distraction. I was very envious of this as I on the other hand was distracted and my time was split over many different things - art, music, anything! and I continued to be into my 20s. When I started KE, mainly due to the fact that I could afford a home studio on 1997, I could finally combine all my music, art, film, literature etc interests (as well as yet untried musical ambitions) into one single idea. In a weird way, I felt I was finally on one of those ascending lines, all my interests combined and focused with maybe a chance to go into uncharted territory (for me anyhow).
I really am not too sure how the composing works or comes out the way it does without just detailing techniques / methods which would probably be missing the point. I know I find it difficult and hard work and I'm often compelled to do it as opposed to enjoy it. I do love it though, even though it sends me nuts. I'm sure this is the same for many. Harmony was always my first love, still is and is the tool I use to construct everything else around. If it's done right, it opens doors into the unknown. Very powerful. The rest is just experiment, experiment, experiment until I've got something I couldn't naturally come up with off the top of my head.
Maybe I should leave it there - some of what I've done has been special for you (and that pleases me no end
Richard
Hi Richard,......Thank you for the reply. It's fascinating and I appreciate any information rendered from an artist/composer like yourself. I've been following the music of Karda Estra for years and it's a pleasure to gather some insight on the subject.
It's all shit, don't listen to any of it, how anyone can make such awful bloody music is beyond me....might be what a visitor to my house once said, when I played him some Cardiacs, Karda Estra and NSRO
But I love it all, buy every album today! If not sooner!
Hello Richard!.
Thanks for your answers and guidance: "Strange Relations" is my first approach with Karda Estra`s unique universe: what a beautiful, special and well done album! ... love it!.
Congrats Richard!.
Pura Vida!!.
Pura Vida!.
There are two kinds of music. Good music, and the other kind. ∞
Duke Ellington.
Hi Bill - you should see some of the comparisons that I get to artists I have no interest in then!
Enid - you're more than welcome - they were thoughtful questions.
Peter G - I'm in good company there!
TCC - Hello - many thanks and welcome!
Hey Richard,
The Age of Science & Enlightenment is a masterpiece, sir! Thank you for recommending it. Such a rich feast of harmony and melody!
The way you create and then resolve tension within your sweeping compositions in non-trivial, yet always logical ways is particularly pleasurable. If, as someone once said, composition is problem-solving, then you are master at setting up obstacles in sound and overcoming them.
The cinematic quality of your work has been mentioned several times above and for good reason. Many passages do evoke sinister scenes from movies such as Don’t Look Now, Rosemary's Baby or The Fearless Vampire Killers, to name a few. While the comparisons to Steve Hackett’s or PG-era Genesis’ more atmospheric works aren’t entirely fallacious, to me your work is more reminiscent of Krzysztof Komeda’s film scores: Beautiful yet disturbing, seemingly tranquil yet eerie.
This is not easy listening, yet it’s easy to listen to, if that makes any sense…
"Dem Glücklichen legt auch der Hahn ein Ei."
I'm about to dig into this shortly as from the descriptions i've read it sounds up my alley. Been meaning to for a while actually.
I've also just realised that you're the guy who does the 'cinematic music' show on Interesting Alternative. Always good to listen to that *thumbsup*
Really? Krzyszof Komeda? Not heard of him, perhaps I should investigate.
Warms my heart to see someone new enjoying Karda Estra's music
Hi 100 - fantastic. Yes, makes absolute sense - that's just what I aim for / what naturally seems to come out - the whole picture, so to speak. Delighted when someone gets it.
Bill - yes, Komeda's done some great stuff. Rosemary's Baby is reminiscent of the Mondo Italian composers (Morricone et al.) who mix bossas / waltzes in with eerie, sometimes quite tough orchestrations. Voices used in all manner of ways.
Hi Loosefish (like the name, by the way) - many thanks - I hope you enjoy dipping your toes. And yes, it's me who very occasionally gets to give Steve & Kavus a night off with the Interesting Cinematic Show. Well two so far ... hopefully I'll do a third at the end of the year.
Richard
Last edited by Karda Estra; 03-04-2015 at 06:16 PM.
Richard, listen to your Dolls House, how you build it up towards the expectant theme that kicks in at 46 seconds and again at 1.57
Then listen to Lars-Erik Larsson's - God In Disguise, Op. 24, the 1st movement only, which ends at 4.30, and how he builds it up towards the expectant theme that kicks in throughout the 1st mvmt, softly and slowly at first, then progressively louder as the mvmt goes on.
I think I might have asked you this before, sorry for repeating if I have.
Now when I listen to your Dolls House that theme reminds me of the recurring theme in this Larsson piece. Had you ever heard the Larsson piece before you wrote Dolls House, do you think? Or just a happy coincidence?
Anyway, no matter how or why, they are two of my very favourite pieces of music, and The Dolls House is my favourite track on New Worlds.
I am also at times reminded of The Enid by some of your music Richard.
Hi Peter ,
No, I wasn't aware of Lars-Erik Larsson's 'God In Disguise', either composer or piece, so yes 'all similarities are purely co-incidental'
'The Doll's House', despite being a small piece, went through a few incarnations, which is unusual for my way of working. This is because Dev and Ben of Terraformation (whom I have collaborated with a few times) asked me to write them a tune to record. I wrote a simple 3/4 'Doll's House' demo for them. They went and did a great expanded arrangement - often not in 3/4. I loved it. Then, while I was doing those live video sketches, I decided to resurrect the waltz, with Jemima on piano. This live sketch was recorded before we did the fuller 'New Worlds' version. As you like the tune, here's a link to the Terraformation version - see what you think:
https://terraformation.bandcamp.com/track/doll-house
Re: The Enid. They've done some great tracks - I think 'The Demon King' and 'Fantasia' are my favourites. When all is said and done though, I personally see more differences in approach and not too many similarities - pretty different projects to my mind. I do find quite a few people who like The Enid also get into Karda Estra though. I'm always intrigued to hear these types of cross references - the truth is in the ear of the listener. When anyone mentions Ennio Morricone of course, I just instantly fall into hero worship/I'm not worthy mode but I can babble for hours
Richard
It seems timely to resurrect this thread as Richard Wileman has just made all Karda Estra albums, as well as his solo work, available for free download on Bandcamp:
https://kardaestra.bandcamp.com/
https://richardwileman.bandcamp.com/
This is some great music, do check it out!
I do not own them all but I have not heared one Karda Estra or Richard Wileman release that I did not find worthwhile.
His two solo albums are a bit more song orientated but just as good.
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The Exquisite Corpse Game was something that I was not aware of so thanks for the mention. Karda Estra has always been one of those "mean to get to it" artists but thanks to this thread, I'll get to it.
Mongrel dog soils actor's feet
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