Wishbone Ash (and the like)

**Onomatopoeic** · 02-19-2015

Originally Posted by WeatherWiseCDC

If you guys are really into Argus, look for the 2013 Platinum SHM-CD remaster from Universal Music Japan. That's the definitive version of the album; Platinum SHM-CD plays on CD players and contains CD-format PCM audio. More import than the format, though, is that the mastering is top-notch.

http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/UICY-40015

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thread...323981/page-30

Yes, the mastering is top notch, but it's the same stereo PCM master used for the 2-CD Deluxe Edition release (from 2009), which is based on standard non-SHM CD manufactured discs.

Maybe you are thinking of the Super Audio CD (SA-CD) version of Argus? The SA-CD *will* potentially sound better than a SHM or a standard CD, because SA-CD audio is encoded in a 2.8 MHz DSD bitstream format, not in the common 16-bit / 44.1 KHz PCM format.

Unfortunately, the Wishbone Ash "Argus" SA-CD edition is not a hybrid SA-CD, meaning that you must have a SA-CD capable player to play it. Hybrid SA-CD discs have a standard CD top layer that any CD can read and a second SA-CD layer with the high quality stereo or multi-channel audio program material for SA-CD players. Also, the Wishbone Ash "Argus" SA-CD edition is manufactured with SMH media just like the standard CD edition that was released by Universal in Japan. Unfortunately (at least in my opinion), the SA-CD is stereo-only -- no quadrophonic or 5.1 mix. Maybe in the future, there will be some sort of "Deluxe" CD + DVD-A release of Argus, or a CD + BluRay Audio version.

**Trane** · 02-19-2015

Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor

I have to agree that WA lost it after Argus.

There is The Rub has some good moments, but I'd generally agree with you...

If you like WA and Argus, you might want to try the Dutch band Cargo's only album...

Originally Posted by Onomatopoeic

HOWEVER... a lot of early Wishbone Ash fans probably aren't aware of an pretty good album that was released about 4 years ago (First Light), that is an album of previously unreleased sessions that were recorded a few months before they recorded what became their first album in 1970.

Will check it out

**PeterG** · 02-19-2015

HUGE WA fan here. Have loved them for years, and have all their albums, mostly on vinyl.

Top VI

1. New England - because it contains my fav WA tune, which is their greatest twin-guitar monster - Outward Bound. As well as the fantastic You Rescue Me, and Lorelei, among others. A totally solid album, love every track.
2. Pilgrimage - The Pilgrim, the epic Where Were You Tomorrow and Alone, as well as loads of other great songs, there isn't a bad tune on there!
3. Argus - Sometime World, Time Was, Warrior all excellent.
4. WA - debut
5. Four
6. There's the Rub

**yoyiceu** · 02-19-2015

Epitaph is the German Wishbone Ash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uGlpT3s6H4

**nosebone** · 02-19-2015

Originally Posted by PeterG

HUGE WA fan here. Have loved them for years, and have all their albums, mostly on vinyl.

Top VI

1. New England - because it contains my fav WA tune, which is their greatest twin-guitar monster - Outward Bound. As well as the fantastic You Rescue Me, and Lorelei, among others. A totally solid album, love every track.

Another fan of the underated New England.

**Interstellar** · 02-19-2015

New England has indeed a special atmosphere. There was some magic in the twin guitar work at the time.

**Library Jon** · 02-19-2015

There are different versions of Argus on CD with different extras. Which one has the best extras?

Library Jon

**JJ88** · 02-19-2015

^There's also a remix from 2002; this bizarrely didn't have the UFO on the sleeve and added that 'Live In Memphis' promo EP as extra tracks. I don't know which mix the 2-disc deluxe used.

There's a nice 2-cd of 'Pilgrimage' and 'Argus' (the original mix), with the B-side version of 'No Easy Road' added to it.

**arise_shine** · 02-19-2015

Thanks everybody! Just added a bunch of stuff to my "to-listen" list.

WeatherWiseCDC · 02-20-2015

Originally Posted by Onomatopoeic

Yes, the mastering is top notch, but it's the same stereo PCM master used for the 2-CD Deluxe Edition release (from 2009), which is based on standard non-SHM CD manufactured discs.

Maybe you are thinking of the Super Audio CD (SA-CD) version of Argus? The SA-CD *will* potentially sound better than a SHM or a standard CD, because SA-CD audio is encoded in a 2.8 MHz DSD bitstream format, not in the common 16-bit / 44.1 KHz PCM format.

Unfortunately, the Wishbone Ash "Argus" SA-CD edition is not a hybrid SA-CD, meaning that you must have a SA-CD capable player to play it. Hybrid SA-CD discs have a standard CD top layer that any CD can read and a second SA-CD layer with the high quality stereo or multi-channel audio program material for SA-CD players. Also, the Wishbone Ash "Argus" SA-CD edition is manufactured with SMH media just like the standard CD edition that was released by Universal in Japan. Unfortunately (at least in my opinion), the SA-CD is stereo-only -- no quadrophonic or 5.1 mix. Maybe in the future, there will be some sort of "Deluxe" CD + DVD-A release of Argus, or a CD + BluRay Audio version.

Onomatopoeic, I double-checked with numerous people over at SteveHoffman.tv's forum. The 2013 PT SHM-CD (and 2013 SHM-CD) uses a brand new, unique 2013 mastering. I can understand your confusion, as there are previous SHM-CD releases as well, but the 2013 Platinum SHM-CD and 2013 SHM-CD (pay attention to the year of release) feature a brand new remaster.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thread...#post-11906052

Originally Posted by WeatherWiseCDC, post: 11906052, member: 44469

A question about the 2013 Platinum SHM-CD of Argus.
A poster on another forum has made this statement:
http://www.progressiveears.org/forum...l=1#post374958
I'd like some clarification. The 2013 Platinum SHM-CD does not use the same mastering as the 2009 Deluxe Edition, does it? My impression is that it uses a new, unique flat transfer of the tape source, but someone please chime in.

Originally Posted by onlyconnect, post: 11906417, member: 10329

I wondered about this too. UICY-40015 says that it uses the "HR cutting from the DSD master which was newly flat transferred from UK original analogue master tapes in 2013." But it also includes the four bonus tracks that are not on the SHM-SACD, which makes you wonder. Anyone got both this and the 2009 edition to check?
Tim

Originally Posted by Ulli, post: 11906624, member: 3009

No, it definitely does not use a previous mastering. It's all new and the best I've heard yet, better even than the SHM-SACD (not to mention the 2009 DE). Others on this forum have expressed the same opinion.
Moreover, the SHM-CD includes a separate mini-LP sleeve of the EP (but only one CD with added bonus tracks).

Originally Posted by formu_la, post: 11907017, member: 42436

That poster is clueless, and your impression is correct. The new Platinum (or just SHM, no difference) is 81 minutes of great sound, and better than SHM-SACD. I have both.

Originally Posted by toilet_doctor, post: 11908197, member: 41031

I cannot comment on UK Argus 2009 remaster, as I have 2010 Japanese one - 2010 SHM Mini LP (First Press) complete set in the Argus promo box . I sold out a lot of my Uni and EMI releases counting on Pt reissues, but not this one - so good and silky smooth it sounds. Even Live Dates, while didn't sound as good as studio recordings, has a decent sound.
It states: Mastered by Hitoshi Takiguchi (Universal Mastering Studio); DSD Remaster 2010. (It didn't specify 'flat transfer' and, I think, it is not).

...

Argus SHM-SACD was flat transferred from Japan copy of master tape and is good sounding one.

When my friend upgraded his system to good hi-end with Oppo 105D as a player, I bought additionally Pt and non-Pt Argus with new 2013 flat transfer from UK OMT and gave him all 3 versions for test. Pt did win. I blamed on poor Oppo SACD performance and good red book one. However, is very strong opinion that Pt really was better done and sounds better. I think in this case it's both. I will re-evaluate everything myself with real hi-end SACD player.

Go for the 2013 PT SHM-CD. I think you'll like it a lot. The mastering is brand new.

**Onomatopoeic** · 02-21-2015

Originally Posted by WeatherWiseCDC

Onomatopoeic, I double-checked with numerous people over at SteveHoffman.tv's forum. The 2013 PT SHM-CD (and 2013 SHM-CD) uses a brand new, unique 2013 mastering.

Thank you, sir. I will make a note about the 2013 master and the fact that this Uni/Japan transfer job is the best so far.

**JohnTG8** · 02-21-2015

Personally I like all the eras of the Ash. Some bands to check out under the like part of this thread:
Plankton
Serpent Throne
The Flying Ryan Brothers

**Progbear** · 02-21-2015

There’s a “the like”? I’m not the biggest Wishbone Ash fan in the world but I’ll grant them this, they do have a unique sound. Not really comparable to any other band I’ve heard.

**Onomatopoeic** · 02-22-2015

Originally Posted by Progbear

I’m not the biggest Wishbone Ash fan in the world but I’ll grant them this, they do have a unique sound. Not really comparable to any other band I’ve heard.

The Allman Bros were doing the dual intertwined lead electric geetar thing before anyone else. Wishbone Ash came along about about a year-and-a-half later with a harder and prog-ier version of that same playing approach.

The Allmans used a couple Gibson electrics (Les Pauls and/or SGs) and Wishbone Ash usually used a Flying V or Les Paul + a Stratocaster, so there was a difference in tonality between the Allman Bros dual-guitar sound and Wishbone Ash's dual-guitar sound.