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Thread: Hackett or Howe?

  1. #51
    When Steve Howe first appeared on The Yes Album....it was like an explosion with guitar players in the U.S. Every guitar player forming or performing in a Prog band wanted to go home and practice. He had this ball of energy rotating through everything he did on the axe with amazing speed and clarity. It was the early 70's and not many guitarists were entering the stage with a band to be diverse like Steve Howe decided to and guitarists desired to emulate his style and in point, they had to study to do that. It was quite similar in some ways to the story Chris Squire tells about meeting Jimi Hendrix. Most people here remember that story where Chris Squire was checking his mic and he looked up and saw George Harrison, Pete Townshend, Eric Clapton, members of The Beatles and others waiting to see Hendrix who Squire, himself was in a band and opening for ..without personal knowledge of Hendrix' reputation. The same surroundings, groupings, and personal interest existed for Steve Howe in the U.S. when he hit the music scene and dazzled people for the first time.

    Steve Hackett seemed very serious about the Classical guitar and when I eventually did hear Voyage and Wind and Wuthering, he came across to me as an understudy of Segovia. Then years later with Bay Of Kings..he had developed further and in recent years he has developed an overall tone like Christopher Parkening. I spent between 12 to 15 hours a day practicing Classical guitar and gave up Electric to master aspects to it and in the real world that is not enough time at all. Not if you are seriously considering working out technical pieces to perform in a theater/hall/church. Steve Hackett seemed to progress on Classical guitar slowly/gradually ..because he put a lot of his energy into the electric guitar and writing. He even has a Blues album...so there's no doubt he has locked in with other styles which would be almost forbidden during the serious developmental growth stages of the Classical student. So...Steve played in Genesis, went solo and releasing more Prog, but still became a universal sounding Classical player. Over-time.

  2. #52
    Member bill g's Avatar
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    My favorite (electric) solos:

    Hackett - Firth of Fifth, Sierra Quemada, Spectral Mornings

    Howe - Maiden Voyage, To Be Over, Running The Human Race

    Although I'm sure I'm forgetting something
    Last edited by bill g; 02-17-2015 at 10:25 AM.

  3. #53
    Kevin Moore! No.

    Apples and Oranges and I love the work of both.

  4. #54
    They're both two of my main guitar influences - I won't ever deny that.

    Sit down and play "Clap" from start to finish on a Martin 0018 acoustic if you don't think Howe is "that" accomplished. It shouldn't take very long to master it, right?

    When my old prog tribute band covered "The Return Of The Giant Hogweed" I was watching the old videos of how Steve played his solo. And I still didn't think that was what he actually did, it doesn't sound as articulated as it does on Nursery Cryme. So I learned it the way I think it sounds on the album, which was much more challenging to play.

    They're both masters of diverse guitar performance.
    They both have very challenging parts throughout their catalogue.

    And you may not like Howe's tone - but try tones you do like, and see then if you can be heard, in that wash of Yes music. You can't. There's a reason the guitar sounds as it does.

    And you may not like Howe's note choices, but for me, that's exactly why I love his playing so much. There are other very famous guitarists who don't do a thing for me, with their playing.

    Howe does.
    Hackett does.

    Complexity, out of all the songs by both that I know, note-for-note?
    Howe, without hesistation.
    You literally grit your teeth, and jump into it.

    In my old prog tribute band, we went through multiple musicians to find ones who could REALLY play the songs exact. But I've always been the only lead guitarist - the only remaining founder in the present band.

  5. #55
    Howe has the more unique and innovative style of playing. Nobody then or now has ever mastered playing the guitar in the way Steve Howe does. His brilliance is in his unique innovative playing. To get to Howe properly, you don't study Howe directly, or it will be totally unnatural. Better to start learning Merle Travis and Wes Montgomery. If you get that down, then you will have a better sense of how Steve Howe approached his phasing, note selection and chord progressions.

    It would be much easier to learn Togographic Oceans than to get your brain into a space where you could have written those parts. People forget that really easily.

    Hackett had more formal classical training to my ears. From there, he was handed an electric guitar and some effect pedals and developed his sound in Genesis through trial and error within the framework laid down between Banks and Rutherford. That would have been a unique experience also.

    But I don't think it is any accident that Steve Howe was Guitar Player magazine axeman of the year for half the decade. People understood his brilliance better then than they do now because most guitarists today are more influenced by metal playing that comes more from the roots laid down by Micheal Schenker.

    Metal playing is much more cookie cutter by the nature of the scales used. Learn the scales, get your speed up. Cookie Cutter.

  6. #56
    Member Koreabruce's Avatar
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    Hackett to the best of my knowledge is largely a self-taught musician. I don't think he has had any formal classical training.

  7. #57
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    Silly stuff, this thread, but it got the discussion rolling. I heard Howe a good ten years before I heard Hackett so in a way my choice leans towards Howe, but over time Hackett has improved more and held up better. What each offers is pretty different, yet, equally eclectic. So they are a good pair to compare. For Howe, it was more about his quick fingered runs. Think that quick, jazzy lick in the solo to Yours Is No Disgrace. Best thing he ever played. I never heard him play anything as melodic and lyrical as Hackett’s solo in Firth of Fifth though. I don’t think Howe’s tone would have enough sustain to pull it off anyway. I’d go with Howe pre 1980 and Hackett post it.

  8. #58
    Member Koreabruce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    Silly stuff, this thread...
    Agreed. But thanks for allowing us to indulge, man!

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    They are very different and very distinctive players. But then again how about the 2nd half of Genesis' 'Inside And Out' where Hackett seems to be channelling Howe??
    .
    True.. I remember way back when we first listened to that piece, a guitarist friend of mine thought it must be Howe playing. I wonder if Hackett set out to imitate Howe on that one. Has he ever commented on it?

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    I'd go with Howe pre 1980 and Hackett post it.
    Have to agree and still wonder what happened to Howe in the 80s.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by chescorph View Post
    Have to agree and still wonder what happened to Howe in the 80s.
    Howe has been about as interesting as Jimmy Page from the 80's onward.

    Hackett's output has been crazy good since then. By far the superior over the long haul... but Howe ruled the 70's.

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by chescorph View Post
    wonder what happened to Howe in the 80s.
    He got worse. Much worse.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  13. #63
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    I would say both but we know what happened last time they were together. Yuck.
    The Prog Corner

  14. #64
    I've seen many great shows with Howe since the early 90's, solo and with Yes. I got a Steve Howe Trio show off Dime from 2013 and I think it's great. It buries the 3-album Yes concert I saw. But he was way better in the 70's. Hackett is better than ever, but I still prefer Howe. It was interesting seeing the Genesis Revisited show and Yes close together in 2013. Hackett blew away Yes (my fave band)IMO but it really showed how complex Yes is in comparison. At least to me.

  15. #65
    Member bill g's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miamiscot View Post
    I would say both but we know what happened last time they were together. Yuck.
    Part of that pile of unfortunateness was the state of music and the music industry at the time, I think.

  16. #66
    I have to give the edge to Hackett.

    If this question was asked in the 70's, I would probably answer differently.

    Then, there's the 3rd Steve 'H'. Hillage.
    And if there were a god, I think it very unlikely that he would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence - Russell

  17. #67
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simon moon View Post
    I have to give the edge to Hackett.

    If this question was asked in the 70's, I would probably answer differently.

    Then, there's the 3rd Steve 'H'. Hillage.
    who is above the other two IMO
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  18. #68
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    I'd go with Howe. Sometimes his tones annoy the hell out of me, but his best moments are among the best moments in progressive music. Gates, Siberian, Machine Messiah... just amazing.

    I like Hackett just fine, but I've always thought he was a bit overrated to be honest. I can think of five mind-bending Howe moments before I can think of one from Hackett.

  19. #69
    My two favorite guitarists.

    Howe was unparalleled in the 1970's. His guitar work specifically on CTTE, Tales, and Relayer are the best I've ever heard.

    For Hackett, his work on Foxtrot, Selling England, and Lamb are next in line.

    Just magical sounds!

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enid View Post
    When Steve Howe first appeared on The Yes Album....it was like an explosion with guitar players in the U.S. Every guitar player forming or performing in a Prog band wanted to go home and practice. He had this ball of energy rotating through everything he did on the axe with amazing speed and clarity. It was the early 70's and not many guitarists were entering the stage with a band to be diverse like Steve Howe decided to and guitarists desired to emulate his style and in point, they had to study to do that. It was quite similar in some ways to the story Chris Squire tells about meeting Jimi Hendrix. Most people here remember that story where Chris Squire was checking his mic and he looked up and saw George Harrison, Pete Townshend, Eric Clapton, members of The Beatles and others waiting to see Hendrix who Squire, himself was in a band and opening for ..without personal knowledge of Hendrix' reputation. The same surroundings, groupings, and personal interest existed for Steve Howe in the U.S. when he hit the music scene and dazzled people for the first time.

    Steve Hackett seemed very serious about the Classical guitar and when I eventually did hear Voyage and Wind and Wuthering, he came across to me as an understudy of Segovia. Then years later with Bay Of Kings..he had developed further and in recent years he has developed an overall tone like Christopher Parkening. I spent between 12 to 15 hours a day practicing Classical guitar and gave up Electric to master aspects to it and in the real world that is not enough time at all. Not if you are seriously considering working out technical pieces to perform in a theater/hall/church. Steve Hackett seemed to progress on Classical guitar slowly/gradually ..because he put a lot of his energy into the electric guitar and writing. He even has a Blues album...so there's no doubt he has locked in with other styles which would be almost forbidden during the serious developmental growth stages of the Classical student. So...Steve played in Genesis, went solo and releasing more Prog, but still became a universal sounding Classical player. Over-time.
    Well said excellent---as is DGuitarists comments----says it all

  21. #71
    When people say they don't like Howe's tone a lot of the time, which tunes are they referring to?

    I think Howe's tone in the tunes "Close to the Edge," "The Revealing Science of God," "Ritual," "To Be Over," etc. is just about the best tone ever put to wax. Or maybe I just love when he plays that chocolate Gibson ES-345.
    Last edited by yesstiles; 02-17-2015 at 11:13 PM.

  22. #72
    Cookie Monster Guitarist Onomatopoeic's Avatar
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    Hackett... by a mile!


  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by yesstiles View Post
    When people say they don't like Howe's tone a lot of the time, which tunes are they referring to?
    I'd say generally, the Telly. It can get really harsh. Relayer, while a fantastic album, has a prtty nasty guitar sound through most of it although if it were anything else it probably wouldn't work

  24. #74
    Cookie Monster Guitarist Onomatopoeic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yesstiles View Post
    I think Howe's tone in the tunes "Close to the Edge," "The Revealing Science of God," "Ritual," "To Be Over," etc. is just about the best tone ever put to wax. Or maybe I just love when he plays that chocolate Gibson ES-345.

    As far as hollowbodies go, I see him with the ES-175 jazzbox the most.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by yesstiles View Post
    I think Howe's tone in the tunes "Close to the Edge," "The Revealing Science of God," "Ritual," "To Be Over," etc. is just about the best tone ever put to wax.
    Yup - you think so. Which is great. And one is also allowed to like them without having to deem them the "best" or at least among the five or fifteen "best".
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

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