5.1 or stereo? What do you prefer?

[flatliner]

Over the last couple of years I've read remarks here from many that don't like 5.1 mixes at all, especially from Steve Wilson. And for the life of me I can't understand why. I have his Yes, Tull, Gentle Giant, Tears for Fears (and a few others by him and others) and love them all! I think they breathe new life into these recordings. I hear so many things I never heard before! What a great way to discover things on such classic albums as "The Power and the Glory". I've owned that on vinyl and CD since it first came out, and to hear such clarity and open soundstage is just incredible to me. I also have the Beatles Love in 5.1. This just sounds amazing to me.

Of course to listen to 5.1 you have to have a system that can deliver it. These aren't cheap, but they are MUCH less that when I started my system back in the early 90's. Plus, in order to hear what a system can do it has to be set up properly. But this is VERY easy to do.

So, I'm curious when I hear people say that SW mixes (and 5.1 in general) take all the life and imaging out of the music. I feel quite the opposite. In fact, I believe that 5.1 mixes are what is saving the physical music market from dying a quicker death. I really am not looking forward to the day where music is sold digitally only.

Do most of us like 5.1 or dislike it? Guess everyone knows where I stand.....

[flytomars]

5.1 for me, definately.
I find it very suitable for prog (oh I said the P word :P ) as it is usually rich with many layers and the 5.1 helps to "peel the onion"
But then again I was always amazed by multitrack recording, and even pre-5.1 days I was transfixed with the idea that somewhere there is a quad version of albums like DSOTM with the effects going around the room-
With better sepration of the musical instruments-
Perhaps it is childish but this idea always appealed to me.
Of course once the technology was available I embraced it with both hands,
Right now I even have full 5.1 (including center channel!) in my car,
And am working on a Raspberry pi 5.1 headunit to stream 5.1 to my car processor without the need to use old fashioned DVDs.

[JJ88]

Stereo. I also love the sound of mono on old 50s rock 'n' roll/blues records.

5.1 is a bit of a gimmick for me- not really anything I have much interest in. I don't really think it makes for a coherent listening experience by comparison with mono and well-mixed stereo.

[Brian Griffin]

A Jeannie / Samantha situation - just played Foxtrot in DD5.1 yesterday and while I enjoyed it quite a bit, it struck me how distinctly different the plays are - I wouldn't want to only have one option

As to SW, CttE and Relayer, I think his 5.1 layers are stellar, great work

BG

[Doctor Flang]

Usually i listen to music in stereo far more often, but there's nothing better than a good 5.1 surround mix played back with a good system in a big room. Here are some albums that i prefer in 5.1:

Caravan - In The Land of Grey and Pink
King Crimson - Lizard, Islands and Red
Rush - Moving Pictures
Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon and Wish You Were Here
Derek & The Dominoes - Layla (Elliot Scheiner's mix)
Eric Clapton - Slowhand
Gentle Giant - The Power & The Glory
Yes - Close to the Edge
Mike Oldfield - Crises

[Jubal]

I have roughly about 160 5.1 music mix discs, which include DVD-Audio, SACD, DTS, DVD with Dolby Digital mix, and BluRay with 5.1 Master HD. I love lstening to most of these mixes, but there are several shortcomings in doing so.
1. These mixes generally don't work well unless they are played at a loud volume. I can't really do this when my family is home or late at night.
2. Archiving them on a PC is next to impossible. SACDs can be ripped with a 1st generation PS3 and hacking software, provided that the firmware is not too recent.
3. Because archiving them is impractical, making compilations and listening only to the tracks you like requires a lot of changing discs and therefore, dead air.
4. Some mixes are just plain hard to listen to. The recent BluRay of Quadrophenia and the Thick As A Brick mix are examples. Both had a degree of harshness that was somewhat unbearable.
5. Some discs are difficult to navigate. I have both the DVD-Audio and the BluRay of Close To The Edge. On both discs, when play disc was engaged, they would track the title track but not play it. When I tried forwarding to And You And I and Siberian Khatru, they would play fine. When I went BACK to the title track, it would then play fine. That was a REALLY WEIRD glitch.

I love great 5.1 mixes, and I agree Steve Wilson has done mostly great ones. Unfortunately, we live in a very mobile world. Sitting in a sweet spot and changing discs constantly make the format impractical. I hate to be the one to say this, especially since I thoroughly enjoy the experience when I am able to do so.

[Rand Kelly]

5.1 if the source is audio only for music. For video if it's a movie then of course every time. Concert videos are another story. I have a hard time looking at a stage and hearing the instruments in different locations than what I'm seeing. So,I find with these videos I prefer STEREO. Anyone else think like this?

I have to agree about The Beatles-Love. It has been a few years since I spun it but I remember being absolutely blown away by the 5.1 mixes. I am so glad I jumped on that when I did. Toy Matinee on DVD-A is another phenomenal disc. Mike Oldfield-Tubular Bells 2003 is amazing too.

[zombywoof]

Good surround can add a whole new depth to the music and make you feel like the musicians are sitting in a circle around you. Bad surround is just that - bad. Like anything, it's a case by case basis.

[Werbinox]

Not knowing your background or age I have to ask - have you ever listened to music on vinyl on a good stereo? Having tried all the methods currently available, I have returned to this form as the best way to listen to music. I had to leave vinyl behind for years to rediscover it as my favorite. Not convenient for travel, of course, but the best way when you can do it.

In the end, other people's opinions about anything dont matter when you know what you like. If you like the 5.1 mixes, enjoy them. I dont, so I prefer analog recordings on vinyl.

[zombywoof]

Not knowing your background or age I have to ask - have you ever listened to music on vinyl on a good stereo? Having tried all the methods currently available, I have returned to this form as the best way to listen to music. I had to leave vinyl behind for years to rediscover it as my favorite. Not convenient for travel, of course, but the best way when you can do it.

I'm 22. I have over 200 vinyl records and have heard just about all of them. Despite the 'warmer' sound, the problem I have with vinyl is the degradation of the sound near the center of the disc, not to mention the pops and clicks and general fragility of the medium. I *much* prefer reliable CDs for stereo and DVDs for surround. The vinyl vs CD debate, again, is a case-by-case basis. Flying Teapot LP blows the CD away, but my remixed Court of the Crimson King blows my LP away.

[Rand Kelly]

I'm 22. I have over 200 vinyl records and have heard just about all of them. Despite the 'warmer' sound, the problem I have with vinyl is the degradation of the sound near the center of the disc, not to mention the pops and clicks and general fragility of the medium. I *much* prefer reliable CDs for stereo and DVDs for surround. The vinyl vs CD debate, again, is a case-by-case basis. Flying Teapot LP blows the CD away, but my remixed Court of the Crimson King blows my LP away.

Gong: I am facebook friends with Tim Blake and he told me that "there is not one authorized cd of Flying Teapot on the market. Charly Records is not legally allowed to release that cd yet they went ahead and did it anyway,ruining the gorgeous lp cover in the process. The original Virgin lp is not only the best but the only way to buy the recording without hurting the musicians."

[Doctor Flang]

1. These mixes generally don't work well unless they are played at a loud volume. I can't really do this when my family is home or late at night.

This. The moments when i can really listen to music in 5.1 are pretty rare these days. And i am definitely not willing to buy a bigger apartment JUST to get a bloody sound proofed man-cave where i could hide from my family. Not that i could afford one, anyway.

4. Some mixes are just plain hard to listen to. The recent BluRay of Quadrophenia and the Thick As A Brick mix are examples. Both had a degree of harshness that was somewhat unbearable.

I haven't heard Quadrophenia, but Thick as a Brick was pretty much ruined during the mastering. The amount of treble is pretty hard to take.

I also feel that many of the early 5.1 mixes that were released in DVD-Audios weren't very good. Fragile by Yes sounded like there was TOO much seperation between the instruments, as did Magnification. And then there were some surround mixes, that didn't really use the rears for anything else than some added ambience, like Bill Cobham's Spectrum. On the other hand, i quite liked the adventurous mix of ELP's Brain Salad Surgery with moogs and sequencers running around my head.

[zombywoof]

Gong: I am facebook friends with Tim Blake and he told me that "there is not one authorized cd of Flying Teapot on the market. Charly Records is not legally allowed to release that cd yet they went ahead and did it anyway,ruining the gorgeous lp cover in the process. The original Virgin lp is not only the best but the only way to buy the recording without hurting the musicians."

I'm aware of this. If there was a good remastered copy of Flying Teapot, it would probably replace my crackly vinyl rip as my go-to copy.

[strawberrybrick]

Stereo, hands down.

As for the vinyl vs CD, most of my vinyl, clicks cracks and all, sounds "better" than poorly mastered CDs. One benefit of having a "good" system is that bad recordings/masterings really sound bad!

While I won't call 5.1 a "gimmick", there are very few remixes that have done more for me than the original (Gentle Giant's Power & The Glory being one). It's fun, it's interesting, it's a way to spend money, but look at how few artists have actually made new recordings with 5.1 in mind.

That said, I'd like to hear Larry Fast's Synergy in 5.1!

[Rand Kelly]

This. The moments when i can really listen to music in 5.1 are pretty rare these days. And i am definitely not willing to buy a bigger apartment JUST to get a bloody sound proofed man-cave where i could hide from my family. Not that i could afford one, anyway.



I haven't heard Quadrophenia, but Thick as a Brick was pretty much ruined during the mastering. The amount of treble is pretty hard to take.

I also feel that many of the early 5.1 mixes that were released in DVD-Audios weren't very good. Fragile by Yes sounded like there was TOO much seperation between the instruments, as did Magnification. And then there were some surround mixes, that didn't really use the rears for anything else than some added ambience, like Bill Cobham's Spectrum. On the other hand, i quite liked the adventurous mix of ELP's Brain Salad Surgery with moogs and sequencers running around my head.

Oh God don't get me started on Fragile DVD-A by Rhino. I have about 3 major problems with it. 1. The whole disc was saturated in REVERB. 2. The pulsating Minimoog bass part that queues in Bill from the piano solo on South Side Of The Sky is GONE in the 5.1 mix but present in the 2.0 mix. WTF???????????? 3. The different formats on that don't work all I can play is the 5.1 and the 2.0. I think there are other things on the menu but they won't function,anyone else? I agree about ELP-Brain Salad Surgery DVD-A though it is a sonic roller coaster ride. Tocatta is off the chart.

[zombywoof]

Funny, I thought P&G was one of the least successful 5.1 attempts. Starless and Bible Black smokes it. WarChild, too.

[strawberrybrick]

Funny, I thought P&G was one of the least successful 5.1 attempts. Starless and Bible Black smokes it. WarChild, too.

To each his own!

[Rand Kelly]

The Gentle Giant stunned me at how awesome it is. I want In A Glass House,Free Hand and Octopus next.

[Doctor Flang]

Funny, I thought P&G was one of the least successful 5.1 attempts. Starless and Bible Black smokes it. WarChild, too.

The louder it's played, the better it sounds.

One thing that i find fascinating is that sometimes it's the slower and mellower songs that work best in surround. Aspirations from P&G being one good example. Same with Crimson's Matte Kudesai and Islands and To Be Over by Yes. Stunning.

[zombywoof]

I would concur, re mellower material. The orchestral WarChild stuff and the Crim improvs are stunning. I don't think it's necessarily the 'mellow' stuff that works so well, but rather intricate stuff in general.

[tormato]

I love great 5.1 mixes, and I agree Steve Wilson has done mostly great ones. Unfortunately, we live in a very mobile world. Sitting in a sweet spot and changing discs constantly make the format impractical. I hate to be the one to say this, especially since I thoroughly enjoy the experience when I am able to do so.

I think the whole point of the Blu-Ray, DVD-A experience is about sitting in one spot and getting a chance to listen and is probably a very niche market. I have seen cars with DVD-A systems and I can see Blu-Ray coming soon (if it hasn't already), but the joy of relaxing in may favorite chair for an hour to soak in a good 5.1 mix (which with work, family, & kids, I do maybe twice a month) is sweet. And really, is changing discs that much of an inconvenience?

[Doctor Flang]

Oh God don't get me started on Fragile DVD-A by Rhino. I have about 3 major problems with it. 1. The whole disc was saturated in REVERB.

It was. And yet Rick's minimoog was reduced to one rear channel sounding very thin and quiet and out-of-place. All that reverb added was a slightly cavernous experience. ELP's BSS was over the top, gimmicky and adventurous - just like ELP itself.

I would concur, re mellower material. The orchestral WarChild stuff and the Crim improvs are stunning. I don't think it's necessarily the 'mellow' stuff that works so well, but rather intricate stuff in general.

Three extra speakers definitely help some albums to really come alive, Crimson's Lizard being one good example.

[Brian Griffin]

And really, is changing discs that much of an inconvenience?

Speaking as someone who controls both home theaters on his music server form his phone or tablet, yes, it is when you are accustomed to just dialing things up on a screen

Surround is more of a Ritual for me, as you stated above the once or twice a month seems about what I do

My bedroom has surround but the set up is not nearly as good for 5.1, so the times I can have the living room to myself is when I commit that time

Surround can also be a PITA because you typically have to change setting on the receiver, (from 2-channel stereo to a surround mode)

It's quite embarrassing when you look up halfway through a disc and realize you didn't have it set the right way : )

BG

[strawberrybrick]

^Yep.
Having to get to a menu to plays something is also a little work

[Doctor Flang]

Then there was Magnification by Yes. A rock band with an symphony orchestra should have been marvelous in surround, but for some reason the orchestra was mixed pretty much in the rear speakers and the band in the fronts. I, as a listener, would have prefered the feeling of being IN THE MIDDLE of it all.