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Thread: Anyone Following Anderson-Ponty Kickstarter Debacle?

  1. #1

    Anyone Following Anderson-Ponty Kickstarter Debacle?

    It's really a mess.

    The band lied during the fundraising process pretty blatantly in order to meet their funding goal, promising a studio album they later admitted they never planned to make, in addition to a live album. They promised insider updates, mostly nothing. Last posting on their official site was them quoting a backer and flaming him back in December and promising a January update that didn't happen. Albums were supposed to be out this month- no updates.

    They replaced their guitarist like 3-4 months ago without ever telling their Kickstarter followers on Kickstarter to this day. Word is they are actually talking about releasing a live DVD of the show that somehow will never show the original guitarist playing and where his guitar sounds are completely cut from the live album, assuming they ever actually get around to releasing either to their backers who paid them in AUGUST.

    Meanwhile, the fans have divided into camps. There's the camp that things Jon is a messiah or something that thinks it's just a pleasure to throw money at him and expects nothing back, and the camp that thinks he is a guilty of fraud and is destroying his legacy. Some people are in between.

    Over at a Yes forum site, the owner has had a complete meltdown and banned a bunch of people for criticizing the Anderson-Ponty Band business practices, closed threads, deleted posts, and threatened more bannings to come. This may or may not have something to do with the large banner ads he was running during the APB fundraising campaign for them, which looked an awful lot like paid advertising. He's claiming he doesn't like "negativity" and people need to just "move on", except the people who make excuses for Jon, those people he thinks are swell.

    Total clusterfuck on all counts.

    Say what you want about Yes the band, but you pay them for an album and you do get an album, in seconds if you are buying a download.

    You pay Jon Anderson for two albums and insider access in August, and in February you are sitting around with no updates, a loose promise of one album, a bunch of insane fan boys pissed at you for criticizing their god-hero (Some in outright threatening ways), possibly banned from forums and cut off from talking to you Internet pals for having the gall to speak the truth, and going in circles with Kickstarter customer service. One guy actually got quoted and slammed in an official update from the band in December- an update that managed not to actually update anyone on the band or the progress of the album. They just took time of out of their day to criticize their financial backers and complain that their feelings were hurt, but couldn't answer any questions about or update the status of, you know, the project they were paid to do.

    Quite honestly, my question now isn't how could Yes get rid of Jon Anderson, but rather how the hell could they put up with him on and off for 40 years? The other members of the band must have had the patience of Saints.

    Personally, I will never pay for anything Jon Anderson sings on ever again. I plan to keep on buying Yes CDs- on the condition that Jon Anderson keeps on not singing on them.

    No question Jon is a great musician. Very talented person. It's a shame he's also turned into a bit of a con artist in his latter days. I wonder if he was like this all along or it just started up lately. I've heard plenty of rumors that date back at least to the 80s that this experience lends a lot more credence to for me.

  2. #2
    Member Paulrus's Avatar
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    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

  3. #3
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    45 pages worth covered here.

  4. #4
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulrus View Post
    JINX!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulrus View Post
    Thanks.

  6. #6
    Jon has been promising things for several decades now without being held accountable.. I tend to wait and see the product before committing dollars to it.. Almost fell for the Igor / Anderson release and of course lots of folks bought into the "boxset" that to my knowledge was never fully completed..

  7. #7
    Mod or rocker? Mocker. Frumious B's Avatar
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    FYI: I have little doubt that the author of this thread is the person who formerly used the screen name Downbyariver and was banned from this forum.
    "It was a cruel song, but fair."-Roger Waters

  8. #8
    I have my own Kickstarter wounds to lick. It's only really a useful marketplace for the times when you're dealing with someone in whom you would be willing to place a lot of trust. I tend to avoid it now and I would warn anyone thinking of spending their money there to think three times. (It's not always entirely the project creator's fault, either.)

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by happytheman View Post
    Jon has been promising things for several decades now without being held accountable [...] and of course lots of folks bought into the "boxset" that to my knowledge was never fully completed..
    While the box set has never been completed, the purchase price only covered the initial set of CDs, so it's not the case that people are still owed CDs. Indeed, everyone who bought the box set unexpectedly got a free CD, From Me to You... although given that was the worst Yes-related releases I've ever heard out of well over 100, I'm not certain that was much of a bonus.

    Henry
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by starcastleisokay View Post
    It's really a mess.

    The band lied during the fundraising process pretty blatantly in order to meet their funding goal, promising a studio album they later admitted they never planned to make, in addition to a live album.
    It has been a complete mess, but I don't think the evidence is there that the band lied. The wrong information was given out in error. That's a pretty big screw-up, but everything we know suggests it was a mistake, not a deliberate falsehood.

    Henry
    Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Frumious B View Post
    FYI: I have little doubt that the author of this thread is the person who formerly used the screen name Downbyariver and was banned from this forum.
    I'm just a mild-mannered reporter for the Daily Planet. I have no idea why people are always confusing me for Superman. I have glasses and wear a suit, he has x-ray vision and has a cape. Granted, we're never in the same place at the same time, but have you ever seen Batman and Bruce Wayne in the same place at the same time? I mean, come on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sordel View Post
    I have my own Kickstarter wounds to lick. It's only really a useful marketplace for the times when you're dealing with someone in whom you would be willing to place a lot of trust. I tend to avoid it now and I would warn anyone thinking of spending their money there to think three times.
    Agreed. Good way of putting it.

    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    It has been a complete mess, but I don't think the evidence is there that the band lied. The wrong information was given out in error. That's a pretty big screw-up, but everything we know suggests it was a mistake, not a deliberate falsehood.
    The promotional company that was handling their Kickstarter issued a press release of sorts strongly implying that the band told them to issue the update promising two albums.

    In order to believe that the band was not aware of it, one would have to believe JLP, who personally answers message forum queries on his site, and JA, who spends a ton of time online emailing music clips back and forth with relative strangers, and looking up YouTube videos of water drums, never took a half hour and read their own Kickststarter updates from a campaign that raised them 110k and that their next big project was depending on. That takes a lot of faith, especially given Jon's recent history.

  12. #12
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    If this is another banned user from PE: off with his head.

    I detest trolls!

    If not, move along...

  13. #13
    well Ive just done a Kickstarter for a lovely lady who used to work part time with me for a few months and was on Britains Got Talent. Its certainly challenging and we have had a few obsessives and trolls as well-- ! one thing though about the aforementioned campaign--all those posts on ProgEars gave me a very good insght into what not to do! and hence Ive handled it myself , along with day job--extremely time consuming and still ongoing but we are "at target" hallelujah!

  14. #14
    > "The promotional company that was handling their Kickstarter"

    One of the problems that goes against the original intent of fan-funding. A shame it has become the domain of broad commercial enterprise, when that's exactly what Kickstarter and Pledgemusic were designed to circumvent. I believe I even saw Blue Note Records do some kind of "fan funding" recently. Crazy.

  15. #15
    (aka timmybass69) timmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Innerviews View Post
    > "The promotional company that was handling their Kickstarter"

    One of the problems that goes against the original intent of fan-funding. A shame it has become the domain of broad commercial enterprise, when that's exactly what Kickstarter and Pledgemusic were designed to circumvent. I believe I even saw Blue Note Records do some kind of "fan funding" recently. Crazy.
    It's not crazy. Everyone is broke. Citizens are hoarding cash. Government at all levels are passing additional legislation to squeeze more tax dollars out of everyone because they are broke. World debt is ~$224T (US only around ~$17T). Not crazy at all when you consider the true health of the economy.

    (Am I the only one that wonders to whom all of this world debt is owed? The Martians?)

  16. #16
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Its owed to the 1% ers.

    I've contributed to a few kickstarts but only to bands I believe really need it and bands I'm heavily committed to.
    Ian

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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by timmy View Post
    It's not crazy. Everyone is broke. Citizens are hoarding cash. Government at all levels are passing additional legislation to squeeze more tax dollars out of everyone because they are broke. World debt is ~$224T (US only around ~$17T). Not crazy at all when you consider the true health of the economy.

    (Am I the only one that wonders to whom all of this world debt is owed? The Martians?)
    I recommend John Lanchester's book on the subject: http://www.amazon.com/I-O-U-Why-Ever.../dp/B005DI8D6W

    Henry
    Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
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  18. #18
    chalkpie
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    I've been thinking about having a kickstarter to help me get my car inspected, get new tires, new home speakers, and my next 4 years worth of mortgage payments. Highest pledgers get a date with Udi Koomran at your local rollerskating rink (ice cream included).

  19. #19
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    I've been thinking about having a kickstarter to help me get my car inspected, get new tires, new home speakers, and my next 4 years worth of mortgage payments. Highest pledgers get a date with Udi Koomran at your local rollerskating rink (ice cream included).
    You should go for it. Stranger things have happened.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  20. #20
    éí 'aaníígÓÓ 'áhoot'é Don Arnold's Avatar
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    That was pretty funny.

    I strangely feel like downing a heap full of potato salad now!



    ps I honestly could not care less about the "implosion" .... now, back to thinking more about potato salad

  21. #21
    The Anderson/Ponty deal was the third time I got screwed by a Kickstarter scan. Talk about a slow learner. Fool me four times, shoot me.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    The Anderson/Ponty deal was the third time I got screwed by a Kickstarter scan. Talk about a slow learner. Fool me four times, shoot me.
    I doubt it's a scam. Just poorly managed and communicated.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Ego Selected View Post
    I doubt it's a scam. Just poorly managed and communicated.
    My own guess is that the reality is somewhere between the two extremes. I very highly doubt Jon or JL went into this with the intention of scamming their fans. But I also doubt it was just an innocent mistake by the management team. More likely, I think that Jon decided he just didn't want to do a studio album (writing, recording, not easy, you know...) but the kickstarter money had already been collected, and a lot likely spent, so the fallback was the BS about a misunderstanding...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post

    I've contributed to a few kickstarts but only to bands I believe really need it and bands I'm heavily committed to.
    Same here and I have never had an experience where I did not get what was originally promised. However, I am picky about the artists I have helped fund and in just about every case was pretty confident that they would deliver on whatever they promised.

  25. #25
    Explain to me why a Jon Anderson project would need funds.......SMFH

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