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Thread: Right Cartridge for Prog?

  1. #26
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    Rega cartridge?

  2. #27
    I went for the Ortofon 2M red and in the future plan to add the 2m blue stylus as the bodies are identical.
    The 2M red is so very listenable, all frequencies are in balance, the detail is terrific and the sound stage has widened and deepened.
    It takes about 10 hours to bed in [or maybe that was my brain] and then is a very good cartridge indeed.

  3. #28
    Member Wounded Land's Avatar
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    I've heard nothing but good things about that cartridge.

    I've got my eye on the VPI Nomad, which comes with the 2M Red pre-installed.

  4. #29
    I'm really surprised no one has mentioned a Goldring 1012 or 1040. I couldn't believe it would make that much of a difference over a Shure or AT. The Goldring sounds way better than any of the Grado's I have heard either. It's by far the best cartridge for the money I have ever heard, and I have heard a lot of cartridges.

    Still, it's only one element in the stream. Tonearm, interconnects, amp, speakers, placement, room. It's all important.

    I can't think of a genre of music that potentially needs to be listened to correctly more than progressive rock. The depth in the production values especially in the golden age were something special. But I realize VERY few people listen to music on a real quality system.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Skullhead View Post
    I'm really surprised no one has mentioned a Goldring 1012 or 1040. I couldn't believe it would make that much of a difference over a Shure or AT. The Goldring sounds way better than any of the Grado's I have heard either. It's by far the best cartridge for the money I have ever heard, and I have heard a lot of cartridges.

    Still, it's only one element in the stream. Tonearm, interconnects, amp, speakers, placement, room. It's all important.

    I can't think of a genre of music that potentially needs to be listened to correctly more than progressive rock. The depth in the production values especially in the golden age
    were something special. But I realize VERY few people listen to music on a real quality system.
    Sorry I haven't been able to hear a good album tracked by a Goldring. I've seen that name a lot, but usually starting at 500.00. Your comment about it being only one element in the stream is well stated. Proper installation and alignment also makes a world of difference.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Land View Post
    I've heard nothing but good things about that cartridge.

    I've got my eye on the VPI Nomad, which comes with the 2M Red pre-installed.
    What arm?

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Jubal View Post
    Sorry I haven't been able to hear a good album tracked by a Goldring. I've seen that name a lot, but usually starting at 500.00. Your comment about it being only one element in the stream is well stated. Proper installation and alignment also makes a world of difference.
    Goldring 1012 comes stock in a Music Hall MMF 5.2 and up. You can usually pick up the TT with cartridge for under $500 with a little patience. In the audiophile world it's considered entry level stuff, but I beg to differ. It sounds better than many $4000 set ups I have heard. From experience, I can only suggest pairing it up with a tube amp and high efficiency speakers similar to some of the Klipsch stuff. I'm a big believer in somehow getting a 15" woofer in your set up somewhere.
    I like the Forte ll for that reason because it has one as a passive radiator out the back along with two great horn drivers and the front two cones. Very full spectrum for not a huge investment. It probably makes too much sense for most, but I find bass sounds better replicating back to my ears coming from a 15 rather than the newer smaller long throw sub set ups. Sounds more natural to me as a bass player also. Having horn drivers I believe horn instruments sound more accurate coming out of a metal horn as well from the speaker. I went through a lot of $$$ and trial and error to arrive at something so simple and sensible!

  8. #33
    False Number 9 Pr33t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staun View Post
    I agree with everything you've said here. Right now, I'm using the Sumiko Blue Point 2. What might be the next logical step in my MC progression? You know, I hope that anyone who is using an MM cart will be able to give the MC carts a try. I just can't get over how quiet they are. Meaning all noise levels except music, is kept to a minimun. These type carts appear to be superior in sound reproduction but this does not mean that there are no great sounding MM carts on the market.
    Everything I've read points to the Dynavector 10x5 being a great MC for prog in particular. If you like a degree of warmth, this seems to be the way to go, and I have this at the top of the list for my next cart (currently have a Rega Exact paired with a P3-24). I'm quite interested in hearing the effect of a MC in my system (PrimaLuna Prologue 3 tube pre-amp, McIntosh 2505). Curious if you guys have recommendations to something similar I should be looking at in comparison?

    I think the OP made a great choice with the 2M Red for an RP1. Those are excellent entry-level carts, and easy to install on a Rega.

  9. #34
    Member rottersclub's Avatar
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    I'll pipe in on this subject. I had an Ortofon 2M Blue on my vintage Rega Planar 3 with an RB301 tonearm, but in my old house, I found the top end too bright. I tried a couple of other carts and ended up with the Dynavector DV-20X2H paired with a Dynavector P-75 phono stage. It was a dramatic difference with all the qualities that others have mentioned above. Another PE member who likes his vinyl has the Ortofon 2M Black and raves about it (at least to me!). If the OP is happy with the 2M Red, I think he will find that the others in that line get progressively better as the cost increases.

    (I am listening to a lot of jazz these days and I think the Dyn is a better cart for jazz than the Ortofon.)
    Think of a book as a vase, and a movie as the stained-glass window that the filmmaker has made out of the pieces after he’s smashed it with a hammer.
    -- Russell Banks (paraphrased)

  10. #35
    I too have the Ortofon 2M red... sounds good to me on vinyl. Rather listen to FLAK files of the old prog rock though.

    I am sure that some experts could recommend a better value cartridge but will it really sound better?

    Jim

  11. #36
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    beside the relatively low price and full frequency response of AT cartridges, the thing I love most is the stereo separation. AT cant be beat for the price when it comes to soundstage reproduction.

    edit: I've tried every well known brand of cartridge over the years. Stanton is my 2nd fav
    Ortofons, Grados and Shures seemed to squash the soundstage... but of course YMMV
    Last edited by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER; 02-05-2015 at 12:05 AM.
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  12. #37
    False Number 9 Pr33t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkleban View Post
    I am sure that some experts could recommend a better value cartridge but will it really sound better?
    Everything is relative in the Hi-Fi world, but I you'd be hard-pressed to call anything a better value at the $100 price point than the 2M Red.

  13. #38
    Member rottersclub's Avatar
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    To elaborate on what (Mike) Pr33t is saying - it's the law of diminishing returns. If you have a starting point of a good cartridge at $100, then the $200 Blue cartridge is not going to be "twice as good". But it will be better. If you move up to the Bronze at around $450, it's going be better again, but not 4.5 times as good as the Red, etc. The benefits you derive are also a function of the rest of your system. One piece or another is going to be the "weak link" in your system. So putting a $1000 cartridge on a $250 TT may not make much sense. Same thing with your phono stage (pre-amp). If it's a $60 board in your amp/receiver, then it may not make sense to spend a lot on a better cartridge. So I guess what I'm saying is that you are trying to match all the components in your system to 1) sound nice together and maybe even derive some synergy from them, and 2) get them all to a similar level of quality (so the weakest link doesn't stick out like a sore thumb).
    Think of a book as a vase, and a movie as the stained-glass window that the filmmaker has made out of the pieces after he’s smashed it with a hammer.
    -- Russell Banks (paraphrased)

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pr33t View Post
    Everything I've read points to the Dynavector 10x5 being a great MC for prog in particular. If you like a degree of warmth, this seems to be the way to go, and I have this at the top of the list for my next cart (currently have a Rega Exact paired with a P3-24). I'm quite interested in hearing the effect of a MC in my system (PrimaLuna Prologue 3 tube pre-amp, McIntosh 2505). Curious if you guys have recommendations to something similar I should be looking at in comparison?

    I think the OP made a great choice with the 2M Red for an RP1. Those are excellent entry-level carts, and easy to install on a Rega.
    BobM and Pr33t, I decided to go with the Dynavector 10x5. After talking with the two of you and my TT guy, it seems a good choice, not to memtion the price point. Will be installed for the weekend. Nothing like opening new albums and slapping them on the table.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  15. #40
    False Number 9 Pr33t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staun View Post
    BobM and Pr33t, I decided to go with the Dynavector 10x5. After talking with the two of you and my TT guy, it seems a good choice, not to memtion the price point. Will be installed for the weekend. Nothing like opening new albums and slapping them on the table.


    What's the rest of your setup consist of? I'll be quite curious to hear your observations after you've bedded in with it, as it will probably be my next move. I've gradually updated my components over the last four years, and have found it really great to pick a few reference albums that I'm very familiar with to act as the 'control' group. I find it the best way to come close to analytically comparing what the new components are doing compared to the old. I nerd out on this, so YMMV as to how fun that might be

  16. #41
    False Number 9 Pr33t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottersclub View Post
    To elaborate on what (Mike) Pr33t is saying - it's the law of diminishing returns. If you have a starting point of a good cartridge at $100, then the $200 Blue cartridge is not going to be "twice as good". But it will be better. If you move up to the Bronze at around $450, it's going be better again, but not 4.5 times as good as the Red, etc. The benefits you derive are also a function of the rest of your system. One piece or another is going to be the "weak link" in your system. So putting a $1000 cartridge on a $250 TT may not make much sense. Same thing with your phono stage (pre-amp). If it's a $60 board in your amp/receiver, then it may not make sense to spend a lot on a better cartridge. So I guess what I'm saying is that you are trying to match all the components in your system to 1) sound nice together and maybe even derive some synergy from them, and 2) get them all to a similar level of quality (so the weakest link doesn't stick out like a sore thumb).
    Totally agreed. Synergy is what you're really looking for, no matter what level your system is. You can get sucked down a black hole sized rabbit hole when it comes to Hi-Fi, but the real bottom line is how things sound to you, and whether you're satisfied with the sound you're getting.

  17. #42
    Member Staun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pr33t View Post


    What's the rest of your setup consist of? I'll be quite curious to hear your observations after you've bedded in with it, as it will probably be my next move. I've gradually updated my components over the last four years, and have found it really great to pick a few reference albums that I'm very familiar with to act as the 'control' group. I find it the best way to come close to analytically comparing what the new components are doing compared to the old. I nerd out on this, so YMMV as to how fun that might be
    Right now I'm rocking Boulder 850 mono blocks, Counterpoint SA 5.1 preamp, Pro-Ject Xperience 2 TT, PSB Image T monitors. Must admit my dad had alittle input but he doesn't have much time for these things anymore. He's always had nice systems in his home. But, I've got some milage on my rig and will need to start the upgrade process soon. I'm sure I can manage to nudge an idea or two from him though. Looking forward to hearing the new cart and will report back after alittle settling in period.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  18. #43
    False Number 9 Pr33t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staun View Post
    Right now I'm rocking Boulder 850 mono blocks, Counterpoint SA 5.1 preamp, Pro-Ject Xperience 2 TT, PSB Image T monitors. Must admit my dad had alittle input but he doesn't have much time for these things anymore. He's always had nice systems in his home. But, I've got some milage on my rig and will need to start the upgrade process soon. I'm sure I can manage to nudge an idea or two from him though. Looking forward to hearing the new cart and will report back after alittle settling in period.
    Your system isn't anything to scoff at - seems rather impressive! I'm sure the cart will work well with that.

  19. #44
    Member Staun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pr33t View Post
    Your system isn't anything to scoff at - seems rather impressive! I'm sure the cart will work well with that.
    Well, age is persistant. Being used to one type of sound and knowing you have to upgrade soon can be a scary endeavor. Setting a budget and staying inside it will have to rule the day. It's like you said, trying to stay out of the black hole.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  20. #45
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by member View Post


    Anyone who's big on vinylfor their, which would you recommend please?
    One thing which has not been mentioned yet... and it really depends on what you want to do. If you have a very large LP collection, you more than likely have some albums that you bought 2nd hand. I currently have 8 cartridges of various manufacturers and when I want to digitally remaster an album for CD I actually put each cartridge on the tonearm and record a sample of the album I want to remaster. I have observed that each cartridge produces, not only a different sound, but also picks up differing degrees of surface noise.

    There is not *one single* cartridge which produces the best sound from *all* LPs. I use different cartridges based on careful examination of the samples recorded with each from the album to be digitally recorded.

    Of course, this point is moot is you do not intend to make digital copies of your LPs.
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  21. #46
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    Regs Exact II.

  22. #47
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    Rega, I hate auto correct!

  23. #48
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    Staun,

    Please let us know how it sounds once it all breaks in. You have a nice system, should be very enjoyable.

    Bob

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