If the vocals had been overdubbed by a person who sounds exactly like a 25 year-old Peter Gabriel having a really good night, would you have had a problem with it?Originally Posted by JJ88
If the vocals had been overdubbed by a person who sounds exactly like a 25 year-old Peter Gabriel having a really good night, would you have had a problem with it?
Back on topic for me.... Peter Gabriel vocals I believe seems to have the most conversation.... so, the problem Pete had LIVE is that he was forced to sing some songs beyond his normal range. The vocal tracks from these earlier albums have many comps on them that were spliced to together from all the takes he had to do in the studio to hit those HIGH notes.... this did not translate well LIVE as many have mentioned and even though it was 25 years later (if that is what we have landed on), I can only imagine how tempted Pete had to be to not release vocals sounding as bad as they did (at least to him) even if he had to sing them an octave lower to cover them up.
Just saying but I don't really know Pete's motive.
Jim
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Did Steve Hackett redux his guitar solo in Counting Out Time?
Actually, I think it had more to do with his tendency to bounce around the stage, for want of a better way of describing it, during performances. Like during things like Willow Farm or Colony Of The Slipperman, it's kinda difficult to sing on key when you're moving around like that.
^ Madonna & Britney do not seem to have a problem with that… Oh, yeah… Right… I forgot. Silly me!
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like
Like many here, I have a boot of the show with the original vocals. I'd have to say that over 50% of the "repairs" had to do with Pete's ego, not technical problems, as the liner notes suggest... Admittedly, there are places where the vocals distort, although my copy is probably not first-generation, so who knows how good the original recording sounds?
You have to keep in mind that the boots of the show that are out there are soundboard tapes while the Archive 1 version is from the multitrack tapes. Two different recordings altogether. So it's perfectly possible that there were problems with Peter's vocals on the multitrack even though the soundboard sounds OK technically. Then it could also be Peter's ego as well ;-)
Not just a Genesis fanboy.
Not possible...nor is this so-called 'exactly like' possible for any other singer.
I'd have preferred that he'd just put it out 'as is' because of the great change in his voice. As has already been noted, this wasn't a mass-market, lower-priced live release (although it initially sold well here)- the set itself says, it's an archive project, and such a venture always has a certain warts-and-all quality.
I can't believe his singing at the actual concert was any worse than the demo of 'Going Out To Get You', released on this same set. That's the single worst vocal I've heard from him, but he left that alone. Go figure!
Last edited by JJ88; 01-28-2015 at 02:51 AM.
Without wishing to open up the discussion too much, all the Led Zeppelin live albums have much touching up done. Read thegardentapes.co.uk for more
if they re-did many sections of this live performance,
why didn't they add in a different live version of 'IT'
so that it would end like a live performance and not fade out?
i always thought that killed the whole show.
Agreed. I thought there should be a bunch of happy fans showing their appreciation for the performance and the fade out just feels incomplete. It could be they just ran out of tape.
Well, that's a little different. What Page did, for the most part, is edit different performances together. I'm not sure he did any "3 decades after the fact" overdubbing.
Most live albums have a certain degree of "cheating" going on. Either you've got a recording that's comped together from multiple performances, or you've got overdubs. It's that way since the mid 70's. Virtually all of the classic "live" albums have some amount of overdubbing on it. Even the Grateful Dead did overdubs on both Skullfuck and Europe '72.
According Tony Visconti, nearly everything, except the drums, was overdubbed on Live And Dangerous. I think I read where he said Phil Lynott, Scott Gorham, and Brian Robertson each came in and asked to "fix a couple things", and they ended up overdubbing a lot more than they apparently originally intended. On top of that, he said the audience clapping during Rosalie/The Cowgirl Song was actually achieved by feeding crowd noise through a noise gate and using the the hi-hat, I believe to trigger the the noise gate so it would sound like the audience was clapping on the beat. And you ever wonder why the crowd noise at the end of that songs so abruptly? Because it the tape ran out a few seconds after the song ended, so Visconti punched some stock crowd noise from a sound effects recording or whatever. Oh, and Southbound on that album was apparently recorded at a soundcheck.
And speaking of overdubbing crowd noise, Eddie Kramer admitted he did the same thing on Kiss Alive, stacking up crowd noise from multiple shows, to make the audience noise "more exciting" or whatever his excuse was. And on Kiss Alive II, if you listen closely to Tomorrow And Tonight, you can hear Paul Stanley singing lead vocals and vocal harmony at the same time! Mind you, Kiss never actually played Tomorrow And Tonight or Hard Luck Woman in concert, yet somehow they're on the live album...
Mind you, all the above cited examples (other than Page comping together the posthumous Zep live albums 25 years after the fact) happened reasonably soon after the original concerts were recorded, as opposed to doing overdubs 20 years after the fact.
I once had a debate with someone who couldn't understand why pop and "dance" music performers lip synch, and I gave him the usual "because they can't dance and sing at the same time" explanation. This guys then says he saw the Rolling Stones (which tour, I don't know but given this guy's age, I don't think it could have been before 1989), and "Mick didn't have any trouble running around the stage and singing at the same time". It might not have sounded to you like Mick was having trouble singing, on the night, half a football field away in whichever stadium you saw them in, but I bet if you listened to a recording of the show, you might hear something different. Watch Let's Spend The Night Together if you want to hear just how "great" Mick sounds while running around on a ridiculously oversized stage.
Those come from sound checks. I believe they were recorded at The Forum in Inglewood, CA. They also did that with "I Still Love You" on ALIVE III. I played basketball with Eric Singer back in 1995 and he verified that the ALIVE III version was recorded at soundcheck in Cleveland. KISS never performed that song on any show during the Revenge tour.
Speaking again of overdubbing crowd noise, one of the most ridiculous examples is Carlos Santana and Buddy Miles Live where they literally use the same 15-second crowd loop throughout the entire album. You hear the same two distinct whistles dozens of times.
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
And that album is said to be completely re-created in the studio (though only a few weeks later).
LOL. Me and my brother and cousin made a "live" album when we were kids by adding applause from Seconds Out between the tracks.
First I have heard this. WOW! Columbia Executive: "Okay you guys we need the next album to be live." Carlos/Buddy: "But it sounds awful." CE: "We have a studio so fix it."
After the Yardbirds disbanded, the label tried to rush out a "live" album. Jimmy Page said the producer was so clueless as to what a rock audience sounded like they put cocktail noises (glasses clinking, etc.) into the crowd noise.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
Are you sure it wasn't Bonham? Okay, maybe he didn't use a glass.
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
Yeah, as I said, Thin Lizzy did the same thing with Southbound on Live And Dangerous. I wonder how many bands did that on their live albums, "Oh, let's record a song or two at the soundcheck".
I believe I read the same thing happened on Deep Purple's Made In Europe. And here's one for you: the BBC broadcast a Tangerine Dream show recorded at the Royal Albert Hall in April of 1975. At the start of the second set, the crowd noise is a loop as well. Once again, you can hear a particular whistle multiple times, before the band actually starts playing.
I never heard that story, but I do know that Page took legal action to get a live album that was recorded on the last Yardbirds tour off the market.
And the version of the story I heard has it that the crowd noise itself is from a bullfight.
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