Psychology of online YES fans

[Sean]

By and large no band on the net has inspired such adamant vitriol than YES. It seems it has been that way from the beginning of the net. One look at old posts at alt.music.yes confirms this. It sure didn't start with the ousting of Mr Anderson.

Why do you suppose a great deal of online Yes fans are such nitpicky shit talkers? Do they feel the band betrayed them in some way? Do they feel like they are owed something?

Is it impossible to be a member of a Yes forum and have a healthy existence there, free of having to wade through that sort of BS?

I have said before "if you are MEAN to someone over a ROCK BAND you need a serious attitude adjustment", yet it's commonplace.

So why are online Yes forums overrun with these self important fuck-wits? What makes them tick? Why such passionate HATE?

Did the way the band treated each other over the years inspire this? Is turn about fair play?

[Supersonic Scientist]

By and large no band on the net has inspired such adamant vitriol than YES. It seems it has been that way from the beginning of the net. One look at old posts at alt.music.yes confirms this. It sure didn't start with the ousting of Mr Anderson.

Why do you think suppose online Yes fans are such nitpicky shit talkers? Do they feel the band betrayed them in some way? Do they feel like they are owed something?

SSS: I do hold the opinion that "some" YES fans feel betrayed by the band...how?...I don't know. I do know this though...YES were placed on such a high pedestal that ANY sort of short-coming (perceived or otherwise) by the band was/is considered blasphamy to some. (Yeah, I don't get it either)


Is it impossible to be a member of a Yes forum and have a healthy existence there, free of having to wade through that sort of BS?

SSS: I do not visit other Prog sites so I can't say since, for me, I get all of the relavent Prog info I need/want right here @ PE.


I have said before "if you are MEAN to someone over a ROCK BAND you need a serious attitude adjustment", yet it's commonplace.

SSS: Therapy is warrented for some fans

So why are online Yes forums overrun with these self important fuck-wits?

SSS: Again...such a high passion for the band will bring out the fringe fans.

What makes them tick?

SSS: I really don't want to know...I just want to be able to indentify those "fuck-wits" and avaoid them at all costs.

Why such passionate HATE?

Did the way the band treated each other over the years inspire this? Is turn about fair play?

SSS: Maybe...

just my 2 cents

[Brian Griffin]

Are you referring to any current forum in particular?

AMY certainly had it's bullies / fuckwits, some who have even resurfaced here, albeit in a more civil manner

I recently joined Yesfans, seems pretty tame

BG

[dnieper]

Probably because so many strong and talented personalities (Howe, Anderson, Wakeman, Squire, Rabin, Bruford, Moraz, Sherwood, Banks, etc.) have been in the band over the years. Few other bands can boast such a talented and diverse roster.

Each guy has his own loyalists, who might:
-view any of the other lineups as illegitimate (leading to discussions and/or pissy tantrums)
-say some of the other musicians aren't so good (leading to discussions and/or pissy tantrums)
-believe some of the albums aren't what Yes is about (leading to discussions and/or pissy tantrums)
-think Yes should have stopped at one point or another (leading to more discussions and/or pissy tantrums).

And *every single new release or tour* can result in a reappraisal (and more discussions or pissy tantrums), often because there's a new guy involved.

Compare this to a band like Rush, whose lineup has never been in question and who get along well with each other- it's kind of hard to imagine fans disagreeing so strongly about something. Yes's history makes for some interesting discussions (and pissy tantrums), but it probably eventually tarnishes the legacy a bit.

[JJ88]

^There are Rush fans who don't like the direction they took at some point in their career but I've noticed with Rush, there's not one album really universally singled out as being lousy a la 'Union' or (particularly) 'Open Your Eyes'.

There's just so much drama (so to speak!) with Yes. That doesn't help.

[dnieper]

[QUOTE=JJ88;359256]^There are Rush fans who don't like the direction they took at some point in their career but I've noticed with Rush, there's not one album really universally singled out as being lousy a la 'Union' or (particularly) 'Open Your Eyes'.
[QUOTE]

That's true, but with Rush, any new direction seems more legitimate because you can't blame a new member for the change. But with Yes circa 1987, for example, you could passionately believe "If only Steve Howe or Rick Wakeman were in Yes! They would have never put an album out like Big Generator! I hate Trevor Rabin!," and then the bickering would start...

Of course, ironically, TFTO is eons better than any Wakeman solo album, ABWH was worse than Big Generator, and Heaven and Earth sounds like a JA solo album.... (IMO!)

[Nijinsky Hind]

The term "rabid fan" comes to mind.

[Splicer]

People aren't all that different no matter where you go. Most are pretty horrid people with varying thicknesses of veneer slapped on top to make them seem almost human. The most strident fans of music or sports or anything else are pretty much on the level of jihadists. True believers in a religion of their own making that convinces them they are correct and everyone else is not only wrong, but a heretic. My only response to apes like that is to either ignore them or egg them on. It's easy to troll those people and so, so fun to do it.

[Scott Bails]

Did the way the band treated each other over the years inspire this?

This is the answer, IMO. So many personnel changes, so many people "done wrong," peoples' performances over-dubbed, etc. There's a lot of areas to choose sides. Add in the "Internet muscles" and general prog fandom geekery, and you have a perfect recipe for online bickering, name-calling and fighting.

[Staun]

Because for the last 37 years, this band has produced crap and nothing else. Everything that's happened since is just an offshoot of this. No long explanations needed.

[infandous]

Don't know and don't care to know. I'm not shy about stating my opinion about Yes and their multitude of lineups and albums and "phases". I don't ever feel the need to put anyone down though if they have a very different opinion. I don't see the point in arguing about such things, since everyone has different tastes and their own idea of what makes Yes, Yes. I agree with Splicer though, that it can certainly be fun to troll the more "passionate" fans (read, assholes). Honestly though, I've never visited any strictly Yes forums, and my only experiences with such fighting is on general prog sites like this one.......which is more than enough for me.

[Sean]

What I have seen on the Facebook YES forums is what inspired this thread.

[Scott Bails]

My only exposure to Yes forums is when the idiots that are banned from there come here and start their crap here. No thanks.

[Plasmatopia]

That's true, but with Rush, any new direction seems more legitimate because you can't blame a new member for the change.

I think you're onto something here. It certainly seems to be the case that factions line up around the drama of various Yes members' comings and goings.

I wonder though - are there other bands where this phenomenon is so pronounced? Certainly I can think of other bands that have had a lot of lineup changes and somehow never become so controversial.

[JJ88]

My only exposure to Yes forums is when the idiots that are banned from there come here and start their crap here. No thanks.

Then go back on there and moan about this site.

[Sean]

I think you're onto something here. It certainly seems to be the case that factions line up around the drama of various Yes members' comings and goings.

I wonder though - are there other bands where this phenomenon is so pronounced? Certainly I can think of other bands that have had a lot of lineup changes and somehow never become so controversial.

I can't say for a lot of bands, but for example, Kansas fans seldom if ever argue over lineups or what album is best/worst. They've had had a few lineup changes over the years too....

[Digital_Man]

In response to Sean's original post:

Yes Sean I agree. As someone who spends some amount of time on a certain Yesfan forum(no bonus points given for the name of the forum )I can say that you are pretty much spot on. Here are some theories:

YES are a band trapped between being a famous household name and a well respected cult band. They never quite made it super huge like Pink Floyd or Led Zeppelin so some fans resent the fact that not everyone loves their favorite band or even knows about them(especially younger music fans).

The personalities within the band(past and present but especially past), led to a lot of disagreements and probably also was at least partly responsible for the lineup changes which brings me to the next one.

The band has had so many lineup changes, at least one hiatus, breaks between albums that it led to not just tension within the band but also among fans. The band creates such an emotional impact on the uber fan that it causes temporary if not permanent insanity.

I don't think many bands aside from Yes have such die hard fans that border on being completely nuts(self included at times). I think apart from maybe just a few bands(the Grateful Dead, Rush and Kiss especially)there aren't many bands with such a devoted and loyal fan base(I would say all the major prog bands have this to some degree but especially Yes). So as such there is a tendency for some fans to lose sight of reason and being rational. I remember at the Yes convention I attended eons ago one guy thanked Jon Anderson on the phone for being born while another female fan was crying and seem to indicate that pretty much her whole life revolved around the band. Also, on a radio special the announcer said something like "to understand their fans you need to understand that they see YES as not just a band but almost as a philosophy." I think that pretty much sums it up right there.

At one point they were without a doubt my favorite band. Now I'm not so sure since I don't really like having favorites these days but I will say if I were to have such a list they would always be in at least the top five(or actually more like constantly fighting Rush with the top spot).

[Facelift]

By and large no band on the net has inspired such adamant vitriol than YES. It seems it has been that way from the beginning of the net. One look at old posts at alt.music.yes confirms this. It sure didn't start with the ousting of Mr Anderson.

Why do you suppose a great deal of online Yes fans are such nitpicky shit talkers? Do they feel the band betrayed them in some way? Do they feel like they are owed something?

Is it impossible to be a member of a Yes forum and have a healthy existence there, free of having to wade through that sort of BS?

I have said before "if you are MEAN to someone over a ROCK BAND you need a serious attitude adjustment", yet it's commonplace.

So why are online Yes forums overrun with these self important fuck-wits? What makes them tick? Why such passionate HATE?

Did the way the band treated each other over the years inspire this? Is turn about fair play?

One person's BS and shit-talking is another person's reasonable response by reasonable people to 1). bad music made by people who once made great music; 2) petty ego-tripping and otherwise poor behavior that some members have exhibited toward each other; 3) of late, on-line contempt shown by one of the band's latest hired hands toward people who consider themselves fans of some at least some eras of the band, but not necessarily others.

Yes is a band that has a long history of different incarnations and different-sounding albums. If Yes hadn't, at one time, made music that makes people passionate about it, you wouldn't get passionate negativity toward aspects of the band that they don't like.

If all a person wants with their Yes is sunshine and lolipops, I suggest firing up a bong and putting on TfTO, rather than getting on an internet forum.

[Digital_Man]

Then go back on there and moan about this site.

Why would he, he doesn't go on there he goes on here. He has no reason to complain about this site. His complaint was more about the members on that site and not this site.

[JJ88]

^No, if it's the same one, he was criticising this site.

[Sean]

They will just complain that we are heartless and didn't care that their bad behavior got them booted from a Yes forum. We've seen it a few times over the years.

[Sean]

One person's BS and shit-talking is another person's reasonable response by reasonable people to

I am not talking about “reasonable responses”. If that were the case Yes wouldn’t be a subject at all. This band brings out some very UNreasonable responses, bordering on manic. That's what this thread is about, the line being crossed. Why does this band push people to that fevered, hateful pitch at times?

[dnieper]

I can't say for a lot of bands, but for example, Kansas fans seldom if ever argue over lineups or what album is best/worst. They've had had a few lineup changes over the years too....

I'm not a Kansas expert, but some differences are:
1) there seems to be much less animosity/hurt feelings between Livgren and Kansas than between Anderson and Yes
2) Kansas didn't have a 1980's breakthrough album like 90125 that sold big but divided their fanbase
3) I think there's more of a consensus about which Kansas albums are best- no controversial albums like TFTO, Drama, 90125, or KTA
4) Fewer ex-members of Kansas had big solo careers or were in other big groups (compared to Wakeman, Howe (Asia), Horn/Downes (Buggles, production, Asia), Rabin (movies), Bruford (KC, UK, solo))
5) Much less drama over the past 20 years. I guess Steinhardt's departure was sort of controversial, but Yes had the departures of Rabin, Sherwood, Khoroshev, Wakeman, Anderson, and David over this period.

[Sean]

OK, what's a better band to compare with a similar, turbulent existence?

[JJ88]

Geoff Downes also threw his hat into the ring on a few occasions...something I've not seen from many other bands!

Sean, I've thought of one right now- Status Quo. Probably mean nothing in the US but they reformed the classic line-up last year whilst keeping the current line-up going, and ever since there's been open warfare on the forums of theirs I've read.