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Thread: Kevin Gilbert - THUD 20th Anniversary Deluxe Edition

  1. #51
    Listened to samples, had to buy it. Looks like I'll be getting another 60th birthday present soon.

  2. #52
    NEARfest Officer Emeritus Nearfest2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Was that released before or after Shaming of the True?
    Before. "Shaming" was initially released in 2000.
    Chad

  3. #53
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nearfest2 View Post
    I listened to most of Disc 1 and about half of each of the others. Mainly, I listened to all the "Shadow Self"/"Late for Dinner" versions back-to-back to compare them. The final version is still the best IMO, but it is really cool to hear the different versions. The Toto version of "All Fall Down" was quite good. I have the "Kashmir" single so I knew those tracks. I need to sit with Discs 2 and 3.
    Glad that you are getting some listening mileage from this release!

    It is interesting to group a title together to see its transformation, at times. When I made these final track listings, I wanted to make discs 2 & 3 flow rather than being an indexed chronological collection of tracks. But… if you make a playlist using all of the tracks recorded between 1990-1992, you get a good idea of what could have been the seeds for a 2nd Toy Matinee album.

    You can also make a more rock-based playlist using:

    • Kashmir
    • Waiting (The Other Version)
    • Miss Broadway
    • Goodness Gracious (Can-Am Version)
    • Shadow Self (Bill's Board Mix)
    • Because Of You (demo)

    There are many playlists you can make with the assortment of tracks included. I'm glad Kevin had access to recording studios so that he could make crisp & clean demos.

  4. #54
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    Just got my copy last night and am blown away by the quality of this package. I'm also stunned at how good the quality of his demos were.....the version of Goodness Gracious-demo on disc 2 is amazing to hear in that raw form.....a great way to spend 40 bucks....
    www.canvasproductions.net

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    Glad that you are getting some listening mileage from this release!

    It is interesting to group a title together to see its transformation, at times. When I made these final track listings, I wanted to make discs 2 & 3 flow rather than being an indexed chronological collection of tracks. But… if you make a playlist using all of the tracks recorded between 1990-1992, you get a good idea of what could have been the seeds for a 2nd Toy Matinee album.

    You can also make a more rock-based playlist using:

    • Kashmir
    • Waiting (The Other Version)
    • Miss Broadway
    • Goodness Gracious (Can-Am Version)
    • Shadow Self (Bill's Board Mix)
    • Because Of You (demo)

    There are many playlists you can make with the assortment of tracks included. I'm glad Kevin had access to recording studios so that he could make crisp & clean demos.
    Gruno, the track orderings on Discs 2 and 3 are great. I am concentrating on Disc 3 today. I'm up to "Joytown (acoustic)" and will get back to it after my next meeting.
    Chad

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by interbellum View Post
    Ordered the 3CD-set. This time the shipping-costs ($22.61) did hurt a bit (and I'm affraid the customs officer will add some more), but that's worth it.
    The package arrived today with no extra customs-payment! This looks wonderful. Haven't had the chance to listen yet, but I know the original version + the Kasmir-single and heard some of the demo's.

  7. #57
    Member mnprogger's Avatar
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    was listening to Jellyfish last night, and it somehow occurred to me the similarity between the busy/uptempo bridge of Joining a Fanclub is eerily similar to the rapid section of Shadow Self. I almost want to start singing/saying the lyrics to Shadow Self when hearing that section of Joining a Fanclub.

    Like Jeff Buckley, I've often wondered if Kevin was aware and/or was a fan of Jellyfish (and vice-versa), given some of the similarities and where they were both based/timing..Toy Matinee and Bellybutton being released both in 1990 also.

  8. #58
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyJoker View Post
    Got mine today. Looks beautiful! Haven't even cracked the plastic yet to open the book. I will be immersing myself into the music next week, when I know I have some real time to spend studying this thing. Can't wait.
    Have you had a chance to get into the set?


    Quote Originally Posted by ProgUK View Post
    This CD package is FANTASTIC. If on the fence, you will regret not having ordered it down the road.
    Putting it proudly alongside my original autographed (by Nick) Shaming Book!!!
    Bravo Gruno!
    Thanks! These are moving rapidly!


    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    I ordered Thud last week, got my shipping notice around Tuesday of this week, and the package arrived yesterday. All in all I've got no complaints about the fulfillment process...I'm sure they're doing the best they can.
    Right on! Orders are flying in/out each day. Seems the weather has let up in part of the country and people appear to be getting their shipments.



    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    Haven't had time to listen much yet, but am excited to dig in this weekend. It is a beautiful-looking package, excellent quality manufacturing. You did your boy proud
    Again, thanks.

    "what music would Kevin be happy with releasing if he were around today?" -- that's the banner above our heads when preparing a new release.



    Quote Originally Posted by rapidfirerob View Post
    Listened to samples, had to buy it. Looks like I'll be getting another 60th birthday present soon.
    A 20th for your 60th!



    Quote Originally Posted by Canvas View Post
    Just got my copy last night and am blown away by the quality of this package.
    It is a beauty, isn't it? I stand by my claim that I made months ago saying that this THUD release will be the best overall product in the KG catalog to date. Not because I worked on it, but because it is a quality product.


    Quote Originally Posted by Canvas View Post
    I'm also stunned at how good the quality of his demos were.....the version of Goodness Gracious-demo on disc 2 is amazing to hear in that raw form.....a great way to spend 40 bucks....
    $40 is nothing when you consider it is 3 discs, almost 3 hours of music, and packaged in a quality book. I must note that the quality of the book is most impressive. Their 400dpi print work is amazing. The inside page with the track listing written by Kevin looks exactly like the original. The writing in pencil, to me, looks like it was actually written on the book page.

    We did the best that we could with our research for the proper track credits. Not much was left from Kevin with regards to who played on each track. Kevin played a lot of the instruments himself for THUD.

    The demos: we are lucky that Kevin was practically raised in professional recording studios. He had access to a lot of quality equipment. He made superb multi-track demos, then worked from those. Yes, he also did some lo-budget cassette tape demos and used 4 and 8 track recorders. Still, some of those are quality pieces. I would have loved to make it a 4-disc set. Then I would have had that 4th disc loaded with some interesting working demos and other choice cuts. It's been a huge task to archive and organize his incredible catalog of recorded music and video, but the reward is far greater than the work.


    Quote Originally Posted by interbellum View Post
    The package arrived today with no extra customs-payment! This looks wonderful. Haven't had the chance to listen yet, but I know the original version + the Kasmir-single and heard some of the demo's.
    That's very cool! The demos and alternate tracks/mixes are like nothing you have heard prior. Some may have heard the (sadly) circulated bootleg material that has been around through the years. The quality presented in this 3 disc set blows any of those bootlegs out of the water!

    I posted this on a FaceBook page, but some might enjoy this here:

    If you have the time, I would recommend listening to THUD a certain way.

    First, do not open the book. Go directly to the back of the book and find the stiff pages that the CDs are housed in.
    Remove disc 1 and listen to that without looking inside the book. I know the temptation is there to check it out, but trust me on this one.

    After you have listened to disc 1, listen to disc 2.
    Once disc 2 begins, start thumbing through the book; beginning to end.

    My reasoning: Hearing 'new' alternate tracks/mixes while enjoying the book that Hugh Brown designed will take you on a small journey into the making of THUD. Disc 3 will also jab at you to reference the book.

    It's a book that you probably will be returning to many times.
    Either way, happy listening!

  9. #59
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnprogger View Post
    was listening to Jellyfish last night, and it somehow occurred to me the similarity between the busy/uptempo bridge of Joining a Fanclub is eerily similar to the rapid section of Shadow Self. I almost want to start singing/saying the lyrics to Shadow Self when hearing that section of Joining a Fanclub.

    Like Jeff Buckley, I've often wondered if Kevin was aware and/or was a fan of Jellyfish (and vice-versa), given some of the similarities and where they were both based/timing..Toy Matinee and Bellybutton being released both in 1990 also.
    Kevin enjoyed Jellyfish.

    Lyle Workman plays guitar on Spilt Milk.

    See that connection? But, Shadow Self's origins pre-date any Jellyfish release.

    As a side note: before some THUD shows, Kevin liked Jellyfish's Bellybutton to be played from beginning to end over the PA prior to him taking the stage. Kevin, Russ and I would have some fun times talking about Jellyfish's music.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    If you have the time, I would recommend listening to THUD a certain way. ...
    That's not bad advice. I stuck with just the original album for the first couple days to get into the right mood and keep it fresh in my head. Then I've been taking time just on disc two. Each one deserves good time to take in by itself.

  11. #61
    Received it yesterday. It's shipped from Sacramento and I live near Berkeley, so I got it lightning fast. Disc 2 is fantastic! Looking forward to disc 3 in a big way. Anyone who digs Kevin's music needs this set. Comes in a beautiful book as well. Thanks for doing this!

  12. #62
    I just did a painstaking review and then leaned back in my chair, touched the keyboard and it all went away. I'm not writing it again.

    Great job Gruno. My favorite inclusion is "Big Heart" which was the biggest find to this big fan. I had never heard it in any way, anywhere so it was awesome. Second would be "Miss Broadway" studio. Nice to hear it here although it's not that different from what hit the stage. "Goodness Gracious (Bottrell Loop Mix)" was a new way to hear the song and pricked my ears. "Tea For One (Demo Mix #1)" I've heard and always loved and it's great to have it in such great quality for the first time! "All Fall Down (Toto version)" is interesting but based on the lyrics, the final version was so much more fitting. Also "Because Of You (Demo)" seems like a step between Giraffe and the final which is interesting.

    A few questions. What's the difference between "Until I Get Her Back" here and on NUTS? I detected a bit in the keyboards being different but not much else. I don't detect a big difference in the "Can-Am" version of "Goodness Gracious" either. Do we know why it got called "Can-Am Version"? Also, why was disk one remastered? Just curious and I ask mainly because I've heard about how anal (in a good way) Kevin was about the mastering of THUD.

    Packaging is excellent too with a few photos I'd not seen from the sessions.

  13. #63
    NEARfest Officer Emeritus Nearfest2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3RDegree_Robert View Post
    I just did a painstaking review and then leaned back in my chair, touched the keyboard and it all went away. I'm not writing it again.
    Also, why was disk one remastered? Just curious and I ask mainly because I've heard about how anal (in a good way) Kevin was about the mastering of THUD..
    Good question! Anything specific to listen for vs. the original, which already sounds amazing?
    Chad

  14. #64
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3RDegree_Robert View Post
    I just did a painstaking review and then leaned back in my chair, touched the keyboard and it all went away. I'm not writing it again.
    Bummer! Usually the auto-save feature works good here when that happens…



    Quote Originally Posted by 3RDegree_Robert View Post
    Great job Gruno. My favorite inclusion is "Big Heart" which was the biggest find to this big fan. I had never heard it in any way, anywhere so it was awesome.
    Thanks! "Big Heart" is also one of my favorite tracks from this new set. Kevin had last included it in a thud track listing from 1992. It fits the vibe of some of the alternate tracks recorded around that timeline, but not with how he finalized the '95 thud album. "Big Heart" was written by Robert Ferris.

    Fun fact: the first track officially recorded for thud was "A Tired Old Man". It made the initial track listing, but was the first track cut and remained orphaned.



    Quote Originally Posted by 3RDegree_Robert View Post
    Also "Because Of You (Demo)" seems like a step between Giraffe and the final which is interesting.
    This recording started with Giraffe, and includes Stan Cotey (of Giraffe) on lead guitar. The ending solo also includes some riffage from Giraffe's "The Last Thing On Your Mind". This demo was finalized in 1992.




    Quote Originally Posted by 3RDegree_Robert View Post
    A few questions. What's the difference between "Until I Get Her Back" here and on NUTS? I detected a bit in the keyboards being different but not much else.
    Among other things, different section:

    thud- 3:35
    Nuts- 3:41

    Here's a comparison where the different sections start -- thud version, then Nuts version:

    CLICK TO HEAR

    Lyrics for both appear at www.KevinGilbert.com

    Here's the interesting thing about "Until I Get Her Back" -- Kevin was simultaneously working on The Shaming Of The True and thud. He included a version of "Until I Get Her Back" as Johnny Virgil's hit song in the Shaming. Then, when the song was cut from thud and he decided he didn't want it in Shaming, he had another version, which is what you hear on Nuts. Those 3 versions each have multiple mixes. From memory, there are about 3-4 mixes of each version of "Until I Get Her Back".




    Quote Originally Posted by 3RDegree_Robert View Post
    I don't detect a big difference in the "Can-Am" version of "Goodness Gracious" either.
    Can-Am Version vs. thud album version?

    You don't hear the difference immediately with the lead guitar? Hi-hat?

    Here is the intro to each; thud version, then Can-Am version:

    CLICK TO HEAR

    There are also different keys throughout. Actually, there are many things different with the lyrics and instruments.



    Quote Originally Posted by 3RDegree_Robert View Post
    Do we know why it got called "Can-Am Version"?
    When possible, we included all titles that Kevin had for his mixes and demos. This one had no name, so we went with the name of the studio on the analog tape: Can-Am Recorders, in Tarzana, CA.



    Quote Originally Posted by 3RDegree_Robert View Post
    Also, why was disk one remastered? Just curious and I ask mainly because I've heard about how anal (in a good way) Kevin was about the mastering of THUD.
    Kevin was a perfectionist and often felt his finished work was always unfinished. He went through many different masterings of thud, including Bernie Grundman. He hoped to re-release it and remaster it. He also wanted thud to see a vinyl release.



    Quote Originally Posted by 3RDegree_Robert View Post
    Packaging is excellent too with a few photos I'd not seen from the sessions.
    It is a sweet one! We tracked down and were able to obtain all the original photos from Jeff Newbury. As for the rest of the book, Kevin didn't keep much of anything from his career, so there was not much to work with. I have an extensive memorabilia collection, so I combined that along with the Estates collection to choose the best of the best. For the book, I had the tickets and PRA promotional materials. On FaceBook I have been posting items that did not make it into the thud book. There's still a lot more cool things to see. Stay tuned.

  15. #65
    Shadow Self mix #2 starts with a beautiful almost minimal-music-like piano-pattern, that reminds me of Peter Gabriel's San Jacinto. The original is still 6:66!!

  16. #66
    I REALLY think that KG's musical output should be used in college musical arrangement classes-not just because he was so great at all aspects of writing, recording and performance but that SO many of his songs exist in various version, in various styles and some with 10-15 years of progress.

    1. Staring Into Nothing (NRG version....SHAMING version)
    2. When Strangers Part (NRG version....NUTS version)
    3. Tired Old Man (NRG version...Giraffee version...Nuts version)
    4. Until I Get You Back (NRG/80's version....THUD/SHAMING/NUTS versions)
    5. The World Just Gets Smaller (Giraffe version....NUTS version)
    6. Because Of You (Giraffe version...THUD demo version....THUD "Shrug" final version)
    7. Imagemaker (Giraffe version...SHAMING version)
    8. From Here To There (Giraffe version....SHAMING version)
    9. The Way Back Home (Giraffe version...SHAMING version)
    10. All Fall Down (Giraffe version...."Toto" version...THUD version)
    11. Tea For One (Demo Mix #1)....THUD version

  17. #67
    Member mnprogger's Avatar
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    I agree. I actually came to believe many years ago, all Public Library's should have a copy of Shaming available to checkout (with an explicit lyrics sticker on the cover).

  18. #68
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3RDegree_Robert View Post
    1. Staring Into Nothing (NRG version....SHAMING version)
    2. When Strangers Part (NRG version....NUTS version)
    3. Tired Old Man (NRG version...Giraffee version...Nuts version)
    4. Until I Get You Back (NRG/80's version....THUD/SHAMING/NUTS versions)
    5. The World Just Gets Smaller (Giraffe version....NUTS version)
    6. Because Of You (Giraffe version...THUD demo version....THUD "Shrug" final version)
    7. Imagemaker (Giraffe version...SHAMING version)
    8. From Here To There (Giraffe version....SHAMING version)
    9. The Way Back Home (Giraffe version...SHAMING version)
    10. All Fall Down (Giraffe version...."Toto" version...THUD version)
    11. Tea For One (Demo Mix #1)....THUD version
    There are other versions that fill in the gaps, also. While they might not see a public release in a hard media format, they may find a home in the hi-res digital world. But, that beast is best tackled in the future.



    Quote Originally Posted by mnprogger View Post
    I agree. I actually came to believe many years ago, all Public Library's should have a copy of Shaming available to checkout (with an explicit lyrics sticker on the cover).
    Why? I'm just asking for your reasoning behind this. Is it because of the story? The production? It's your favorite? Just curious.

    We should take a poll for favorite Kevin Gilbert album one day. If I had to choose my top 3 order, mine would be THUD, Toy Matinee, Kaviar.

  19. #69
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    Shaming, Toy Matinee, THUD

  20. #70
    Member mnprogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    Why? I'm just asking for your reasoning behind this. Is it because of the story? The production? It's your favorite? Just curious.

    We should take a poll for favorite Kevin Gilbert album one day. If I had to choose my top 3 order, mine would be THUD, Toy Matinee, Kaviar.
    I guess I see Shaming having multiple educational benefits, both on a social and vocational level. It kind of tells (or shows/exposes) the music (and entertainment) industry in a different, more honest way that is rarely if ever shown. Someone who may want to pursue a career in music or entertainment might be a bit wiser in how or even if they want to pursue that field.

    And actually it can go beyond that industry, but really any profession or field.

    As far as ranking, I hate making them, but I also like when others do.

    1. Shaming
    2. Toy Matinee
    3. THUD

  21. #71
    I think Thud, Shaming, Toy Matinee are flawless and represent different facets of what he did. Add in Nuts, Bolts and Kaviar for more great stuff-Kaviar especially for its very different flavor from all else he did although "Ghetto of Beautiful Things" (from SHAMING) sort of hints at Kaviar. Everything before that-Giraffe/NRG is a bit embryonic and more derivative but shows immense promise in later work.

    I'm not sure it would make sense or "cents" but I think the estate should make an "Everything You Wanted To Know About Kevin Gilbert"/Best of Kevin Gilbert/etc.-some sort of introduction collection that has a great cross section of his music with good notes inside showing people what album the music is from in hopes that they complete the collection.

  22. #72
    Member ombasan's Avatar
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    Slightly off topic - one of my favourite tunes of KG is "A tired old man", of which multiple versions exist. I "came across" a complete about 9 Minute version of this song, complete with a second instrumental part and a vocal reprise at the ending. Is this officially available somewhere, in decent quality?

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by ombasan View Post
    Slightly off topic - one of my favourite tunes of KG is "A tired old man", of which multiple versions exist. I "came across" a complete about 9 Minute version of this song, complete with a second instrumental part and a vocal reprise at the ending. Is this officially available somewhere, in decent quality?
    Probably from a Post Giraffe Demo, which floats arround on the internet or this live version, which can be found on the official KG-youtube channnel:


  24. #74
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    Thanks for this link. I didn't know this channel existed. The version I have is definitely a demo version and not a live version. This live version smokes in the middle part - pity the quality of the recording is not very good!
    I wonder if a good official version of the demo (or the live version) exists or will see the light of day in the future? Maybe Gruno can elaborate?

  25. #75
    It could be version that's on the Tachika-compilation 6-CD set Never Say Never-A Tired Old Man (better to avoid that one I guess). CD Three, Sometimes Why, contains:

    10 Puppet Suite / Tired Old Man (Early Version) 09:19

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