Your right, no matter how good or bad, your system is the reference. For me, it's alway a saturday. I'm at their place or they are at mine. It's usually, turn that up or turn that down. Everyone is being grained and watered and lots of chit chat but alot of evaluation doesn't go on. But, one of the first things that usually hits me is, there's to much low frequency here.Originally Posted by BobM
The older I get, the better I was.
Which brings up another topic. Subwoofer or no subwoofer.
The older I get, the better I was.
Technology writer can't hear the difference between a lossless track on Pono and an iTunes purchase.
http://www.slate.com/articles/techno...an.single.html
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
Is this all on one CDR or do you bring 20 discs along for the ride?
And would you be willing to burn copies for the rest of us?
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
CDs and LPs.
I only have a few hi-rez albums so far. In fact, I only just connected a new laptop to my OpAmp (which has a DAC) to play all my digital files on the big rig.
There are copyright problems buying hi-rez in Canada. For example, I went to buy Mark Knopfler's Privateering from HDTracks recently, only to be told that they wouldn't sell it me because I live in Canada. I checked a Canadian hi-rez vendor (ProStudioMasters) but they wanted $28 for it. I bought it for $15 on CD from Amazon.
Think of a book as a vase, and a movie as the stained-glass window that the filmmaker has made out of the pieces after he’s smashed it with a hammer.
-- Russell Banks (paraphrased)
I have it on 2 CDRs. Once, I brought them to a very high end place in town and got schooled by the owner that CDRs weren't appropriate or optimal for demoing gear. So now, depending on where I'm going, it will either be the CDRs or a subset of the discs/albums mentioned above. As I mentioned elsewhere, I'm not in the market for any new equipment right now, so the only demoing I'll be doing any time soon is at John Kelman's when his reno is all done and the 333's are nicely broken in.That's right John, they're going to need several hundred hours of break-in to really be at their best.
Think of a book as a vase, and a movie as the stained-glass window that the filmmaker has made out of the pieces after he’s smashed it with a hammer.
-- Russell Banks (paraphrased)
I had one in my old house as the room was very bright and the bass was lacking. I bought a used 10" unit and it fit the bill quite nicely. My new (temporary) room is quite a bit smaller and is carpeted. I'm sitting a few feet closer and I'm finding the bass quite sufficient without the sub. I will hang on to it and maybe end up using it with my TV/HT if/when I get around to it.
Think of a book as a vase, and a movie as the stained-glass window that the filmmaker has made out of the pieces after he’s smashed it with a hammer.
-- Russell Banks (paraphrased)
RE: subwoofers
First of all, I despise anything under 12". They produce large amounts of upper bass an tend to sound like mush. Since I don't have room for 15s, I use TWO 12" subwoofers.
Second, I don't use the LFE (Low Frequency Effects) output. I want to use them for everything, not just movies and 5.1 SACDs, DTS , and DVD-Audio.
In order to do this, you have to set your home theater receiver speaker settings to small on the front L/R, then run your front L/R speaker cables to your sub(s) first, then to your speakers. A decent powered sub will have a variable high pass filter that will let you set the subs to handle that bass that your front speakers do not handle as efficiently as the subs.
This also tends to provide better mid and high end definition out of your front L/R speakers.
Before I got subs, I thought my speakers were OK. When I first tried them with LFE only, I was very disappointed with the sound of anything other than movies and maybe 1/3 of my 5.1 music. When I changed over to "subs on all the time" (the setting noted above), I noted that the bass was better, but was certain I needed two because of the vaulted ceiling in my living room.
I started saving and found a great deal on NewEgg for a second Polk PSW-505 (about 100.00 less than the first one). Once I got the second one set up and went through several hours of testing, I came to realize the overall sound improvement was well worth the investment.
When you shop for a sub (or two), I highly recommend one that allows you to run speaker cable in and speaker cable out, and also a variable high pass filter that goes from 90-120 hz. You'll be surprise at how good this can make even small front speakers sound.
I estimate took about 200 hours to break in my Meadowlarks. I remember the day I noticed. They were rather "dry", especially for voices and the bottom was weak. One day I put on "Even Less" and was just leaving the room to get something when the bass kicked in. It was tight, forward, and thunderous. I switched to Diana Krall and damn, the vocals were exactly what I wanted. There was Diana, in the room, singing her ass off and wearing very little.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
Note to self, add "trip to Kelman's" to my list of Canadian vacation spots.so the only demoing I'll be doing any time soon is at John Kelman's when his reno is all done and the 333's are nicely broken in.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
Opinion only -- I love my sub on the TV sound system but it ain't hi-fi enough for music. I don't want records sounding like somebody dropping a dumptruck off a building.
Subwoofers are for sound effects -- not music.
I love it when good speakers are revealing
It's not the size of the driver, it's the size of the tube. Best bass is produced from a transmission line subwoofer that ain't 12 inches, but it has a holder horn for a long distance behind a smaller long throw accurate driver. Bigger subs are not accurate because they bend.
Firth-
Ports emphasize bass in a particular frequency range, usually peaking around 120-150 hz. Sure they provide much greater output, but the longer the port, the narrower the range of the peak, which causes coloration of the sound. Efficient bass requires larger surface area. If all you want it "thump", then maybe a 10" sub will do it for you. I like smooth lower bass lines and not too much of a lower midrange peak (which is common in most speakers). There is a balance that can be achieved where the "felt" sound does not turn the bass lines to mush.
Your statement about bigger subs bending is oversimplification. All speakers require a certain degree of stiffness (no phallic jokes please). Some subs perform better because they bend less and have heavier duty magnets which control the coil and cone more precisely. The more efficient subs tend to "bend" more primarily because they have smaller magnets and coils pushing them. The better subs require more power to move a stiffer cone with minimal distortion. I have found by experience that in a typical living room, 12s generally perform better than 10s or smaller, and are better suited in terms of volume than 15s, which are really overkill in rooms less than 400 square feet.
Please note I am referring to subs only.
For general front speakers, I tend to favor Polk's strategy of using multiple 6.5" drivers and a port to get a smoothly distributed sound field.
Believe it or not, I don't use two subs to boom the bass on my music. The two subs provide the rhythmic energy that properly balances with the rest of the music. Sure, I can crank them when I want to, but I don't do that very often.
I know that....but what...You planning on moving in for a couple months to help me get there? There will be a sofa in the officeI have it on 2 CDRs. Once, I brought them to a very high end place in town and got schooled by the owner that CDRs weren't appropriate or optimal for demoing gear. So now, depending on where I'm going, it will either be the CDRs or a subset of the discs/albums mentioned above. As I mentioned elsewhere, I'm not in the market for any new equipment right now, so the only demoing I'll be doing any time soon is at John Kelman's when his reno is all done and the 333's are nicely broken in.
There is so much flat out wrong here I don't know where to begin. Listen to Brother Jubal.
Last edited by rcarlberg; 02-18-2015 at 09:22 AM.
Time to start a Kickstarter campaign, methinks. Here's what I'm thinking.
$10 gets you 10 minutes with my new rig, playing two short songs or one-half of a Prog epic of your choice.
$20 gets you a full 20 mins and we'll not quibble over an extra minute or two, so "supper's ready" and "gates of delirium" are in; TfTO and The Whirlwind are, however, right out!
$40 gets 20 minutes plus an exclusive "I was chez Kelman" t-shirt, designed by TBD
$100 gets you 20 min, t-shirt plus a meet and greet chez Kelman (what, you think I'll meet you for a lousy $10 or $20? My wife will play your 10 or 20 mins for you...that will most definitely be worth the $$ alone, as she's both a sweetheart and a looker whereas I am....neither)
$1,000 gets you all the above, dinner chez Kelman at a local Harvey's, and a personalized video recording of the chez Kelman experience, including close-ups during the meal. Only ten of these available so sign up quick!
$33,300 gets all the above, plus my 333s, since I'll now have enough to buy the Tetra 606s. Only one available, for obvious reasons.
Sorry, hate to disagree but...the Tetra 111s add a warmth to the room. Cranked they can give you pumped bass but that's not why I bought 'Em. I tried the 222s alone, with one sub and with two. It's subtle, but two definitely works best, thus the decision to buy the 333s.
Actually, there are ways of hearing the Tetras outside of Adrian's room, as I understand. It's not super easy or super common, but it has been done. So you don't have to come to Ottawa to hear 'em. My invite to Robert was truthful but also a bit of a joke. Contact Adrian at Tetra and I believe he will see what he can do to accommodate.
But where I'll argue is here: Dave Holland heard them while here in Ottawa. He bought them on the spot. He went home, called Herbie Hancock and told him about them, then played the for him at his home. Herbie bought them.
Tetra's model is word of mouth. No, they don't sell the numbers that speakers you can find at an audio store do....but while he'd like to sell more, of course, he is doing just fine with them. Tetra does special events where people can hear them in action. And there is a money back return guarantee that has only been used once when a guy's wife had a meltdown about how much he'd spent and insisted he return 'em. So, while there is a certain amount of faith involved in buying them, you are protected if you try them and don't like them.
Oops, sorry...I paraphrased out of poor memoryone minor clarification: John attributed something to me that wasn't quite what I said, but I think it bears being said:
A true audiophile is never satisfied with their system and they are constantly buying and selling equipment to find the perfect sound. Neither you or I fit that description, so we'll have to find another term. How about "audio enthusiast"?
I've found that most people don't really know how to properly set up a subwoofer. Most importantly, the crossover point on the sub needs to be set below the low frequency rolloff point of the main speaker. This diagram should explain it. At first glance it seems that there will be a dip if you do this, but the signal sums to provide an overall flat-ish response (the red line).
The crossover point is set to "roll off" the signal going to that speaker. So if the subwoofer is set to somewhere around a 40-60hz crossover point, it doesn't necessarily just simply cut off at that point but it rolls off starting at that point, being optimal at 80Hz where the main speakers are beginning roll-up. Resulting in a flat response across the region.
3147d1178161449-amplitude-crossover-frequency-80crossover-sub-plus-main.jpg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A gentleman is defined as someone who knows how to play the accordion, and doesn't.
Tetra 111's are a special case. They are 8" acoustic suspension woofers, paired with the 222's five-inch drivers, so they're really more the WOOFER of the system than a sub-woofer.
Exactly. Never been able to force myself to bring in a sub for the two channel system. Just sounds abit unnatural to these ears. I know people who have them and use them in their music setups and they seem to be quite happy with them. For TV viewing, they are almost a must. There are some great movies where I want to hear the dumptruck crashing to the ground. But for two channel, I'll have to pass.
The older I get, the better I was.
Here please.
The older I get, the better I was.
I use a Polk sub in my man cave but that's because my L/R are two Infinity bookshelf speakers. Deep bass and kick drums are hard to hear. Makes everything sound like it was produced by Eddy Offord. The sub brings it all back. But on the living room rig it's totally unnecessary.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks