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Thread: The Audiophile Thread

  1. #2001
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobM View Post
    So is the information above 8kHz important? Yes it is very important, not to the appreciation of the music but in the perception of soundstaging and imaging. Of course, much more goes into that, like transparency and speaker set up and room treatment and more, but unless a system can reproduce those upper (unheard) signals you just won't get to that point.
    You'll have to explain someday how frequencies WE CAN'T HEAR(!) could make a difference in our experience of music.
    Last edited by rcarlberg; 07-25-2019 at 09:16 PM.

  2. #2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    You'll have to explain someday how frequencies WE CAN'T HEAR(!) could make a difference in our experience of music.
    I would like a bunch of people to listen to Trick of the Tail with a low pass filter (quality FIR) that rolls of after 8 KHz and tell me if they can’t tell the difference.
    “I’m not giving in an inch to fear” David Crosby

  3. #2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3LockBox View Post
    Polk Audio' SDA series (Stereo Dimensional Array) was great at presenting an immersive experience, given proper room dimensions and seating distance, i.e., sweet spot. I still have my Polk SDA CRS (compact reference speakers) or at least, my son has them.
    I have the Polk LSi series, towers with subwoofers, center, and surrounds. My Pioneer Elite receiver time aligns and eqs via microphone based calibration to the sweet spot. The sound from these speakers is woven together seamlessly. The extended stereo mode creates a large accurate soundstage. I have good headphones and they are not as immersive as this experience. Sure it would be possible to record music in a binaural fashion (dummy with microphones in the ears) and playback with headphones on, but why go thru the trouble. There are some headphones that emulate multidirectionality.
    “I’m not giving in an inch to fear” David Crosby

  4. #2004
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    Sure it would be possible to record music in a binaural fashion (dummy with microphones in the ears) and playback with headphones on, but why go thru the trouble.
    Um, because binaural recordings sound AMAZING?

  5. #2005
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    I would like a bunch of people to listen to Trick of the Tail with a low pass filter (quality FIR) that rolls of after 8 KHz and tell me if they can’t tell the difference.
    I think BobM was referring to, and I KNOW I was, those claims that freqs above 20K are important. 8k probably even *I* could hear!

  6. #2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Um, because binaural recordings sound AMAZING?
    More appropriately, who is going to produce binaural recordings. Certainly that would be cool, but I don’t think it’s happening in significant numbers.
    “I’m not giving in an inch to fear” David Crosby

  7. #2007
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    In this article on holophonics, phase coherence is suggested as a requirement, read time alignment. Pink Floyd recorded the Final Cut in holophonics.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holophonics
    “I’m not giving in an inch to fear” David Crosby

  8. #2008
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Came home from vaccation.
    Son (18 years) had held a party. Someone tried to find out how loud... a laptop could play...
    Fuses blown in my Snell A II ... and the woofers...
    Luckily tweeters and midranges seem to have survived.


    Stupidity is the basic building block of the universe
    FZ

    Have to import fuses & new woofers from USA.
    https://www.atomichifiandtv.com/snel...pricelist.html

  9. #2009
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    I have investigated a lot of binaural, dummy head, Kuntskopf recordings, and the Zuccarelli holophonics recordings are some of the weakest, almost as bad as the Chesky Records recordings. In fact, on headphones they don't even sound like real binaural. They just sound like close-recorded stereo.

    There's a whole AMSR (autonomous sensory meridian response) scene out there where some people get very strong tingling sensations from wearing headphones and listening to close-recorded hair clippers, matchbox rattling, whispering in your ear, etc. I don't get it myself, but it's apparently a huge thing.

    But that's totally different from binaural music.

    The albums recorded with the Zuccarelli system -- The Final Cut, The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking, Dreams Less Sweet -- sound NOTHING like real binaural, nor to my ears do the German Kunstkopf-remixed albums -- Aqua, Flow Motion, Blackdance, Golem. There ARE a few true binaural recordings available: Caves From the Iron Mountains, Explorations in Space and Time, Sessions from the 17th Ward, The Revenge -- but they're rarer than hen's teeth.

  10. #2010
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    Came home from vaccation.
    Son (18 years) had held a party. Someone tried to find out how loud... a laptop could play...
    Fuses blown in my Snell A II ... and the woofers...
    Luckily tweeters and midranges seem to have survived.


    Stupidity is the basic building block of the universe
    FZ

    Have to import fuses & new woofers from USA.
    https://www.atomichifiandtv.com/snel...pricelist.html
    How loud can a laptop play.
    NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF STUPID PEOPLE IN LARGE GROUPS!

  11. #2011
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    That is a special kind of stupid. And I assume with that kind of stupidity comes an inability to pay for your new woofers?
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  12. #2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    How loud can a laptop play.
    I’m assuming that it was bass party with the bass cranked up to 100% square wave. Square waves can be deadly.

  13. #2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    I have investigated a lot of binaural, dummy head, Kuntskopf recordings, and the Zuccarelli holophonics recordings are some of the weakest, almost as bad as the Chesky Records recordings. In fact, on headphones they don't even sound like real binaural. They just sound like close-recorded stereo.

    There's a whole AMSR (autonomous sensory meridian response) scene out there where some people get very strong tingling sensations from wearing headphones and listening to close-recorded hair clippers, matchbox rattling, whispering in your ear, etc. I don't get it myself, but it's apparently a huge thing.

    But that's totally different from binaural music.

    The albums recorded with the Zuccarelli system -- The Final Cut, The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking, Dreams Less Sweet -- sound NOTHING like real binaural, nor to my ears do the German Kunstkopf-remixed albums -- Aqua, Flow Motion, Blackdance, Golem. There ARE a few true binaural recordings available: Caves From the Iron Mountains, Explorations in Space and Time, Sessions from the 17th Ward, The Revenge -- but they're rarer than hen's teeth.
    “Contrary opinion here. Headphones are generally GREAT at reproducing room spaces. One reason is that they usually consist of single drivers”


    Well then, for the most part there is no way headphones are going to be as immersive as a multi-dimensional speaker system including Dolby Atmos (with room correction). Maybe headphones aren’t that great at emulating space after all, because there is little or no material that could benefit from them.
    “I’m not giving in an inch to fear” David Crosby

  14. #2014
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    That is a special kind of stupid. And I assume with that kind of stupidity comes an inability to pay for your new woofers?
    Exactly.
    My son was not in the room at the moment, and the others couldn't later agree on who touched the volume knob as the last person.
    I can't understand the fun, especially with a laptop it sounds horrible long time before it gets critical.

  15. #2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    I’m assuming that it was bass party with the bass cranked up to 100% square wave. Square waves can be deadly.
    Its through a Exposure 17 preamp and a Parasound HA 2200 mk II (400 w in 4 ohm), so...

  16. #2016
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    I would like a bunch of people to listen to Trick of the Tail with a low pass filter (quality FIR) that rolls of after 8 KHz and tell me if they can’t tell the difference.
    If one listens to classical records made in the mid 1950s, when the RIAA curve maxed out at 15KHz, they sound quite muddy.
    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama

  17. #2017
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    Well then, for the most part there is no way headphones are going to be as immersive as a multi-dimensional speaker system including Dolby Atmos (with room correction). Maybe headphones aren’t that great at emulating space after all, because there is little or no material that could benefit from them.
    Not sure what you were trying to say here, but what you wrong makes precisely 0 sense.

  18. #2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Not sure what you were trying to say here, but what you wrong makes precisely 0 sense.
    Maybe another beer would help
    “I’m not giving in an inch to fear” David Crosby

  19. #2019
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Touché

  20. #2020
    Audiophile Steve McQueen

    NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF STUPID PEOPLE IN LARGE GROUPS!

  21. #2021
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    And then there's the Chairman's three channel reel-to-reel rig

    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  22. #2022
    Parrots ripped my flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Audiophile Steve McQueen

    Dave's audio tip:
    Always make sure to wipe your feet on the doormat before stepping on your vinyl.

    I spotted Crown of Creation, In A Silent Way, Sketches, At Jazz Inn, and I could swear I recognize the sleeve just past the LP lying in the foreground.
    Last edited by Dave (in MA); 07-31-2019 at 02:29 PM.

  23. #2023
    Here is Frank's system in his Palm Springs home. The house with the piano shaped pool.

    They rent this house out, and I stayed there about 5 years ago. This system is still there, but not working.


    And if there were a god, I think it very unlikely that he would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence - Russell

  24. #2024
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave (in MA) View Post
    I spotted Crown of Creation, Kind of Blue, Sketches of Spain, MJQ At Music Inn, and I could swear I recognize the sleeve just past the LP lying in the foreground.
    Yes, and Sinatra-Basie, John Coltrane "My Favorite Things," Miles Davis "Seven Steps to Heaven," Chet Baker Quartet, and a couple others I can't quite make out.

    And hey? If you're Steve McQueen you can step all over your records.

  25. #2025
    Parrots ripped my flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Yes, and Sinatra-Basie, John Coltrane "My Favorite Things," Miles Davis "Seven Steps to Heaven," Chet Baker Quartet, and a couple others I can't quite make out.
    Good eye.

    I did a google image search and found a little bigger copy and rotated it 90 degrees so I could see it better... The Jazztet-Art Farmer/Benny Golson

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