Thread: The Audiophile Thread

  1. #1201
    False Number 9 Pr33t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strawberrybrick View Post
    BTW, Lambert Land is a gem of an album.
    Finally something in this thread I can agree with!

  2. #1202
    Member Firth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    Not that 180G is bad in any way, but something to consider: when he was putting together Arve Henriksen's vinyl-only Solidification box (seven LPs + DVDs with high res, MP3 and WAV formats), Rune Grammofon head Rune Kristoffersen investigated what weight of vinyl would be best for the box (given the mastering was going to be superlative, as it always is with Helge Sten aka Deathprod). He could find no empirical substantiation that demonstrated 180G as being in any way superior to 150G, so he went with 150G. With 30G shaved off of seven LPs, that's 210G, which helped significantly in postage costs.

    A certain weight of vinyl is clearly needed, but whether 180G (or beyond; I'm now seeing some advertised at 200G) is the benchmark or not seems, at the very least, to be up in the air.
    Great post. I'm still interested in whether there is a longevity benefit with the 180g, but I'm not buying vinyl anytime soon. Honestly, if I wanted to pursue analog compression, I would buy great masters in high resolution digital and experiment with conversion to analog, and then processing with analog circuits which would mimic the compression that happens thru the record making process.

    If I was buying vinyl, the pedigree associated with the purity of the vinyl itself maybe just as important as weight.
    On the verge of indecision
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    Quote Originally Posted by strawberrybrick View Post
    Woo-hoo, it's longer which allows me to move the location of the subwoofer. BTW, Lambert Land is a gem of an album.
    I beg your pardon! Enjoy.

    I guess I'm always ready to jump on the biggest scam in the hi-end audiophile market: super-expensive audio cables like this. Truly insane. Oh well, there's a sucker born every minute.

    Here's a warning just in case any forum members have deep pockets and run into a salesman with no scruples:

    The Cable Lie
    Logically this is not the lie to start with because cables are accessories, not primary audio components. But it is the hugest, dirtiest, most cynical, most intelligence-insulting and, above all, most fraudulently profitable lie in audio, and therefore must go to the head of the list.

    The lie is that high-priced speaker cables and interconnects sound better than the standard, run-of-the-mill (say, Radio Shack) ones. It is a lie that has been exposed, shamed, and refuted over and over again by every genuine authority under the sun, but the tweako audio cultists hate authority and the innocents can’t distinguish it from self-serving charlatanry.

    The simple truth is that resistance, inductance, and capacitance (R, L, and C) are the only cable parameters that affect performance in the range below radio frequencies. The signal has no idea whether it is being transmitted through cheap or expensive RLC. Yes, you have to pay a little more than rock bottom for decent plugs, shielding, insulation, etc., to avoid reliability problems, and you have to pay attention to resistance in longer connections. In basic electrical performance, however, a nice pair of straightened-out wire coat hangers with the ends scraped is not a whit inferior to a $2000 gee-whiz miracle cable. Nor is 16-gauge lamp cord at 18-cents a foot. Ultrahigh-priced cables are the biggest scam in consumer electronics, and the cowardly surrender of nearly all audio publications to the pressures of the cable marketers is truly depressing to behold.
    Source: http://www.ecoustics.com/articles/te...st-lies-audio/

    If you're not convinced I give you exhibit A: http://archive.randi.org/site/index....challenge.html

    I've been through this with true believers and they know they can hear the difference and they get mad as hell no matter how politely challenged. Their argument is basically some permutation or combination of "I've got a degree in ___ and I've been in the audio industry for ___ years and I've heard ____ systems and I know the difference between ___ and ___ and you're an ignorant piece of ___ you god damn ___ what makes you think you know ____ you mother___ing pile of ____ing ____!

  4. #1204
    Member LASERCD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    Great post. I'm still interested in whether there is a longevity benefit with the 180g, but I'm not buying vinyl anytime soon. Honestly, if I wanted to pursue analog compression, I would buy great masters in high resolution digital and experiment with conversion to analog, and then processing with analog circuits which would mimic the compression that happens thru the record making process.

    If I was buying vinyl, the pedigree associated with the purity of the vinyl itself maybe just as important as weight.
    I can state with certainty there is no correlation between the weight of the album and any sonic benefit or longevity. I have mint 50 year old albums that weigh around 100 grams and they are quieter than anything being manufactured today. If anything I would suggest that the additional weight is a detriment because the average consumer does not adjust the VTA to compensate for the additional thickness of a heavier weight LP.

  5. #1205
    Member BobM's Avatar
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    Here is one thing I learned over the years about the "quality" of vinyl sound that is not pertinent to the quality of the recording or mastering.

    If you have old records that you once played on a close and play or on some inexpensive 1970's gear that tracked pretty heavy way back in the day, you might find that they sound better now than they did before. The damage you caused them back then may still be there, but if you have a fairly decent quality cartridge on your vinyl rig today, and it has a fine line stylus on it (or a Shibata tip) it could very well sound like the old damage is gone. Well, it is not. Those old cartridges generally had fairly wide, fat diamonds on them, so they rode higher in the groove. The damage was done to the top edges of the groove wall.

    But today's fine line stylus ride lower in the groove and track deeper, thereby avoiding the damage done by your old cartridge. So your old records may sound less pop and crackly than they did before. No, it's not all gone and clean and wonderful, but it is likely better than it might be otherwise.
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  6. #1206
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhabreath View Post
    I guess I'm always ready to jump on the biggest scam in the hi-end audiophile market: super-expensive audio cables like this. Truly insane. Oh well, there's a sucker born every minute.

    Source: http://www.ecoustics.com/articles/te...st-lies-audio/
    Yes yes yes the cable lie has been exposed many times by many different people -- but still somehow it persists.

    As do the other nine the author mentions.

    Even with such transparent B.S. as this:
    The Odin Supreme Reference Loudspeaker Cable uses 24 silver-plated 20 AWG conductors made from 99.999999% oxygen free copper (OFC), deployed in a flat array arrangement. Each conductor is wound with a helical “Dual Mono-Filament” of Fluorinated Ethylene Propylene (FEP) with an extruded FEP jacket. Carefully matched conductors and meticulous precision throughout the manufacturing process result in a cable of superb sonic performance.

    The Odin Supreme Reference Loudspeaker Cable is terminated with Nordost triple rhodium-plated, beryllium copper, low-mass banana connectors. These low-mass connectors offer the very best interface and impedance matching between the cable and the attached components. Odin is also available with special, triple rhodium-plated Furutech spade connectors. The Odin Supreme Reference Loudspeaker Cable is terminated for Bi-Wire as standard but may be ordered in Shotgun or Bi-amp configurations.
    It would be hilarious -- except that some people take it SERIOUSLY.

    A simple A/B comparison is all that is required to determine the truth. (If the judge has a financial interest in the outcome, make that a not-so-simple "double-blind A/B test" or the author's recommended ABX test.)

    Really, when someone gets so "off in the weeds" about something as obvious and verifiable as cable technologies, it makes me despair for ever finding agreement on issues where there really are two valid ways to interpret the data.

  7. #1207
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post

    A simple A/B comparison is all that is required to determine the truth. (If the judge has a financial interest in the outcome, make that a not-so-simple "double-blind A/B test" or the author's recommended ABX test.)

    Really, when someone gets so "off in the weeds" about something as obvious and verifiable as cable technologies, it makes me despair for ever finding agreement on issues where there really are two valid ways to interpret the data.
    Precisely - snake oil audio salesman HATE AB/ABX tests and it makes me despair that people will ever apply critical thinking to interpreting data and information that is far more important than the quality of audio cable...

    BTW Nordost also sells Whitelight Glass Fiber Optic Cables for $33K!!! It's arguably even stupider to pay a fortune for a more "pure" optical digital signal. Maybe the 1's and 0's are brighter because they've managed to make the material resilient to interference from neutrino bombardment which could collide with 1 out of every googleplex photons and thereby destroy your listening experience.

    But wait We have a new champion: "Perhaps I could interest you in our top of the line Siltech Cables's Emperor Double Crown, starting at the low low price of only $45,000 for two meters!" http://www.thecableco.com/Product/Si...r-Double-Crown

    Now Hear This.jpg

  8. #1208
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    There's an old saying, "A fool and his money..."

    But we've been down this road before, nobody's mind is going to be changed, and I apologize for replying to BuddhaBreath on this. I should've just let it pass.
    Last edited by rcarlberg; 12-29-2015 at 12:58 PM.

  9. #1209
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    I'm actually pretty bored with where this thread ended up, so I guess I will bow out.

    WRT Lambertland - there's one track that's killer - Side 2 Track 2 - Last Quarters. The rest is just OK and the steam of consciousness lyrics are beyond stupid.
    Think of a book as a vase, and a movie as the stained-glass window that the filmmaker has made out of the pieces after he’s smashed it with a hammer.
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  10. #1210
    Member BobM's Avatar
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    Let's liven things up a bit ....

    Who got something new and cool for their system this Christmas season (other than new music)?
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  11. #1211
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobM View Post
    Who got something new and cool for their system this Christmas season (other than new music)?
    I have a Logitech programmable touch screen universal remote coming my way, but it isn't here yet.

  12. #1212
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Where are you moving the subwoofer to?
    Either into the corner of the room (more bass), or away from my rack (less bass, more isolation).
    "Always ready with the ray of sunshine"

  13. #1213
    False Number 9 Pr33t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobM View Post
    Who got something new and cool for their system this Christmas season (other than new music)?
    Not so much gear, but I got a custom made Italian marble record weight. Stunningly gorgeous.

    IMG_5358.jpg

  14. #1214
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Looks good enough to eat, Pr33t.

  15. #1215
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strawberrybrick View Post
    Either into the corner of the room (more bass), or away from my rack (less bass, more isolation).
    Let us know how you like the sound and where it ends up.

    I'm of the opinion that subwoofer placement is NOT endlessly variable, but I only use a sub on my home theater setup (and it's fine there).

  16. #1216
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobM View Post
    Let's liven things up a bit ....

    Who got something new and cool for their system this Christmas season (other than new music)?
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    My Carver 250 w/channel amp bought in the mid 90s is on the way out. It basically "drops out" for long stretches, and it's rare when anything can be played through to the end without incident. I'm not sure whether I should try to take it to an audio shop for repair, or just purchase a new amp. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions? If purchase is the option, I likely wouldn't want to go over $2K, and power output should be in the same range as the Carver. I haven't done any looking at all yet. Does any manufacturer stand out for amplifiers? Anyone have particularly good experiences with a current model?
    Finally took care of this. I bought a NAD M22 Master Series Amplifier to replace the Carver. Haven't hooked it up yet, probably tomorrow. I spent 33% more than intended, but I think I'll be happy. My Christmas present to myself, but I'm using the cash I got for Christmas and putting it toward this purchase.

  17. #1217
    Parrots ripped my flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Not particularly "audiophile" I suppose, but I got a Cambridge Soundworks OoontZ Angle 3 bluetooth speaker so that I can get better sound out of my tablet. Much better sound, and less than $30. My older, slower tablet offers much better sound than my newer one; I guess you sacrifice sound quality when you make 'em thinner and less battery-hungry.

  18. #1218
    Member BobM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Looks good enough to eat, Pr33t.
    Just what I was thinking. It looks like it's already got chocolate sauce on top.
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  19. #1219
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Finally took care of this. I bought a NAD M22 Master Series Amplifier to replace the Carver. Haven't hooked it up yet, probably tomorrow. I spent 33% more than intended, but I think I'll be happy. My Christmas present to myself, but I'm using the cash I got for Christmas and putting it toward this purchase.
    Still happy with my Carver TFM-35 after 12 years (e-Bay purchase) and just replaced the lamps. No problems except contacts on the volume, but that's always at 100% (controlled via the receiver so I haven't bothered). I'm guessing from your new choice you might have had the TFM-35 as well. I'm sure you'll be happy with the NAD and I'd be interested to hear what you think and any perceived differences from driving your speakers with the Carver.

  20. #1220
    False Number 9 Pr33t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobM View Post
    Just what I was thinking. It looks like it's already got chocolate sauce on top.
    Hah! I rarely use a weight as it is, so it's mostly ornamental. My brother-in-law's studio had a bunch made, so I was a beneficiary of that batch.

  21. #1221
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    I bought a NAD M22 Master Series Amplifier to replace the Carver.
    I always liked the sound of NAD components.

  22. #1222
    Outraged bystander markwoll's Avatar
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    At the risk of being branded a non-believer.
    There is, apparently, a better turntable out there.... Steam Powered

    Forgot the video
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
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    Nostalgia, you know, ain't what it used to be. Furthermore, they tells me, it never was.
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  23. #1223
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    That's eff'ing brilliant!

  24. #1224
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    Great Tech! Love it!

    Note: Steam is much more analogue than electricity which is basically digital and subject to quantum "gapping" which causes transharmonic microdistortions subject to peaking at times of heavy neutrino bombardment unless your cables are at least 99.999999999999% oxygen-free.

  25. #1225
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Only if you boil that $1/oz water to make your steam.

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