Thread: The Audiophile Thread

  1. #926
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    Is there any difference between a CD-R burned from lossless files and the original CD in terms of sound. I mixed a compilation CD of acoustic Jethro Tull for the car but for some reason I decided to play it in the living room this morning. Sounded damn good but I wonder how something burned off a basic PC could match the quality of a "store-bought" CD.
    The answer to this is "maybe" -- depends on the quality of the source files.

    There is no inherent difference in sound quality between a CD-R and a CD.

  2. #927
    What about my member? rottersclub's Avatar
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    I used to schlepp a bunch of CDs around with me when I was demoing stereo equipment. I finally got fed up and burned a couple of CDRs. I brought them in to one particularly high-end shop in town, and the owner gave me real grief over bringing them in rather than the CDs. He never actually verbalized why he thought they were inferior.

    My take is that the variability is in the software (error correction) and the burning speed. Generally burning audio at high speeds 48x, 52x etc. is apt to introduce errors. I think if you take your time (say at 8x) and click on the error correction setting, you should get a pristine copy. I used to use EAC (Exact Audio Copy) but it stopped working either because of my DVD-R or Windows 7 (can't remember any more). I have used some very lean and mean programs like ImgBurn in recent years, though to be honest, I don't burn CDRs much any more.
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  3. #928
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottersclub View Post
    He never actually verbalized why he thought they were inferior.
    Ignorance, most likely.

  4. #929
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottersclub View Post
    My take is that the variability is in the software (error correction) and the burning speed. Generally burning audio at high speeds 48x, 52x etc. is apt to introduce errors. I think if you take your time (say at 8x) and click on the error correction setting, you should get a pristine copy. I used to use EAC (Exact Audio Copy) but it stopped working either because of my DVD-R or Windows 7 (can't remember any more).
    This was probably the case 10-15 years ago, but given the much larger amounts of RAM and the improvements in processor and software capability, would these caveats still apply today? I have a bunch of cdrs I brought with me to China of fave albums (I can't abide mp3s), and to be honest I really can't tell the difference between them and the originals, and they were all burned at either 48x or 52x, depending on the maximum burn speed of the disc itself. No discernible errors that I can hear, or drop-off in sound quality, and I mostly listen to them on decent Grado headphones.

  5. #930
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid_runningfox View Post
    This was probably the case 10-15 years ago, but given the much larger amounts of RAM and the improvements in processor and software capability, would these caveats still apply today? I have a bunch of cdrs I brought with me to China of fave albums (I can't abide mp3s), and to be honest I really can't tell the difference between them and the originals, and they were all burned at either 48x or 52x, depending on the maximum burn speed of the disc itself. No discernible errors that I can hear, or drop-off in sound quality, and I mostly listen to them on decent Grado headphones.
    You are correct.

    People who INSIST there must be some degradation from copying are still living in the analog world where this was true. They do not understand the nature of digital bits -- they do not degrade, they don't go missing, they don't wear out.

    A surprising number of self-appointed "audiophiles" have these basic misunderstandings.

  6. #931
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    That being said, there are ways to improve the quality of a transfer/copy from CD to CDR through your computer. Yes, they do seem to make a difference. I agree, it is not likely that you can "improve" on the original, but you certainly can degrade the sound if you copy incorrectly.

    Ripping & Burning - There are several different software packages that can do this better than the default Windows version. The better ones need adjustment and correct setting of the variables to get the best accurate rip & burn. Most importantly, they can detect and account for the latency in your CD burner heads. Think of it as an "offset" of sorts that has to be accounted for. There are also many different "equalization" type of options that can degrade the quality of the original, best to turn these off completely. There are web pages dedicated to correct set up for the best copy. It also seems that the rip can occur at any speed, but burning at the slowest speed your CD drive can accommodate makes a difference over burning fast. As for software, JRiver and EAC (Exact Audio Copy) seem to be the ones that many people recommend as producing better quality copies.
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  7. #932
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Just ran across an excellent summary of "audio woo." Should be required reading.

  8. #933
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    Anyone yearn for the days of the console stereo

    http://www.wired.com/2015/07/review-...mbid=social_fb
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  9. #934
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Ha! Kids and their modern ideas..... Pedal pushers, Frisbees and tail fins next.

  10. #935
    Member Staun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Ha! Kids and their modern ideas..... Pedal pushers, Frisbees and tail fins next.
    Don't forget bobbing dog heads in the rear window.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  11. #936
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    Anyone yearn for the days of the console stereo

    http://www.wired.com/2015/07/review-...mbid=social_fb
    My introduction to "stereo" was an old tube console that my parents relegated to the basement, only the FM dial worked, but considering this was the early 70's that meant some pretty good music that sounded unbelievable.
    "Always ready with the ray of sunshine"

  12. #937
    Surprised at the relative lack of discussion on the sound quality of actual CD\LP releases in this thread.I thought this thread would have been a great resource on what remasters\versions of various bands to pick up or avoid, but this seems not be the case.

    Anyway, i picked up the 4cd box THE YARDBIRDS STORY from charly recently and was extremely pleased with the sound quality.This might be the best sounding Yardbirds i've heard on cd and covers every recording they did under Gomelsky.

  13. #938
    False Number 9 Pr33t's Avatar
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    A little late on this, but I've finally joined the Dynavector club. I picked up a Soundsmith Re-tipped DV XX1-H in perfect condition for a good deal and decided to jump on it. After about a month of unfortunately limited listening, I figured it was time I give my report. I've been pleased with the sound, and find that it is a great continuation of what I was already getting with a Rega Exact - a very nice lively and buoyant sound. The improvements are a tighter, snappier bass, really great natural decay in the high ends on cymbal crashes for example, and great detailing on acoustic sounds. I haven't noticed a huge reduction in noise floor like many tout when making the switch to an MC, but I'm certainly happy with what I'm getting.

    One day I'll be able to afford a real table and cart like Ken's badgered me about, but for now this will have to suffice


    2015-06-23 19.53.36.jpg

  14. #939
    Member BobM's Avatar
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    OK, I'll start ... Here are some of my favorite recent vinyl purchases (say within the last 3-5 years, none of the obvious ones you hear all the time at shows)

    How to Become Clairvoyant - Robbie Robertson (just some great blusey, rock ballad music from a legend)
    The Turn - Jerome Sabbagh (straight ahead jazz recorded pristinely)
    Sylva - Snarky Puppy (not truly audiophile quality, but I like their music)
    Kin - Pat Metheny Group (just another great bit of music with one of my favorite guitarists)

    (that's all from memory right now - I know there are more on my floor at home)

    **********************
    Dynavector XX-1 = I owned this cartridge some years ago. Very nice, but it is one heavy assed (11g heavy I believe) cartridge. I ran into rumble problems with it because it didn't mate well with my tonearm, so I traded it off for something else. It's getting a little long in the tooth now (10+ years old I would guess) but I'm sure it still sounds great.
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  15. #940
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    I'd say the Steven Wilson solo albums all sound great but that's just my ears. The 00s remasters of the early KC albums are my faves as well.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  16. #941
    Member Staun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pr33t View Post
    A little late on this, but I've finally joined the Dynavector club. I picked up a Soundsmith Re-tipped DV XX1-H in perfect condition for a good deal and decided to jump on it. After about a month of unfortunately limited listening, I figured it was time I give my report. I've been pleased with the sound, and find that it is a great continuation of what I was already getting with a Rega Exact - a very nice lively and buoyant sound. The improvements are a tighter, snappier bass, really great natural decay in the high ends on cymbal crashes for example, and great detailing on acoustic sounds. I haven't noticed a huge reduction in noise floor like many tout when making the switch to an MC, but I'm certainly happy with what I'm getting.

    One day I'll be able to afford a real table and cart like Ken's badgered me about, but for now this will have to suffice


    2015-06-23 19.53.36.jpg
    I joined a couple months back. I'm sold.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  17. #942
    Quote Originally Posted by rottersclub View Post
    I used to schlepp a bunch of CDs around with me when I was demoing stereo equipment. I finally got fed up and burned a couple of CDRs. I brought them in to one particularly high-end shop in town, and the owner gave me real grief over bringing them in rather than the CDs. He never actually verbalized why he thought they were inferior.
    Perhaps he thought you were stealing the music using illegal downloads. Obviously from your description, that is not what you did. He may have seen his share of people who actually did that though.

  18. #943
    Member LASERCD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobM View Post
    The Turn - Jerome Sabbagh (straight ahead jazz recorded pristinely)
    I took part in his Kickstarter campaign and recieved my copy a few weeks ago. Wonderful sonics that match the music. Highly recommended.

  19. #944
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pr33t View Post
    One day I'll be able to afford a real table and cart like Ken's badgered me about, but for now this will have to suffice
    Someday grasshopper...someday.

  20. #945
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    The 00s remasters of the early KC albums are my faves as well.
    Just listened to Islands with the tube gear this morning....
    "Always ready with the ray of sunshine"

  21. #946
    False Number 9 Pr33t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watanabe View Post
    Surprised at the relative lack of discussion on the sound quality of actual CD\LP releases in this thread.I thought this thread would have been a great resource on what remasters\versions of various bands to pick up or avoid, but this seems not be the case.
    After nearly 1k posts mostly about equipment, this might be deserving of its own thread I'd happily contribute to one just about reissues.

  22. #947
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    I think Robert should buy this and then he can tell the rest of us if it's worth the $$

    http://www.wired.com/2015/07/fern-ro...mbid=social_fb
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  23. #948
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    Conceptually the table could be ok. Depends on implementation. Its a high mass design which is good. $4500 is cheap.

  24. #949
    Member BobM's Avatar
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    The really funny thing is most people will read that last statement and cringe at spending $4500 on anything. An audiophile might very well say "I could see that if it only looked a little better. Where are the reviews?".

    Robert is likely to snigger and say "Suckers"
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  25. #950
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobM View Post
    Robert is likely to snigger and say "Suckers"
    Are you speaking of me?

    I agree with Ken, it's not a bad design. I personally prefer servo-control over excessive mass, to stabilize the speed (it's a lot more practical and reliable) but there's nothing wrong with the mass design either. Like Ken says, it's all in the implementation.

    As to whether $4500 is "reasonable" that all depends on your budget. For a high end table it's cheap.

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