Thread: The Audiophile Thread

  1. #801
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    Actually Denon receivers can receive wirelessly HD audio to a Denon component that also supports sending it.
    My understanding is that this is an Audiophile thread. Not a Mid-Fi thread.

    Denon makes beautiful mid-fi gear. At least they used to. Haven't followed them in years.

  2. #802
    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    Completely false. My Rockport Technology Aquila have inward firing woofers. Andy Payor has designed many speakers including the $105,000 Altair and $225,000 Arrakis this way. He is one of the premiere speaker manufacturer in the world. I get astounding, clearly defined bass response.
    Wow. And folks balked at he $$33k price tag of the Tetra 606s!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    My understanding is that this is an Audiophile thread. Not a Mid-Fi thread.

    Denon makes beautiful mid-fi gear. At least they used to. Haven't followed them in years.
    Mid-Fi or not. The question was about whether High Definition audio (DSD) could be streamed electronically. On Denon's high end players, it is possible. Your definition of Audiophile appears to be cast in the elitism of the price tag. I agree that the price tag needs to be big for the ultimate in speakers, however that's only because the user doesn't understand technology and allocates the responsibility to the speaker. There are solutions which don't require the ultimate in price tag in speakers, but a broader understanding than it takes to spend a huge amount of money on the house and the speakers.
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    Hey, you can be an audiophile with a $2000 budget, or a $20,000 budget or a $100,000 budget. It's all for the enjoyment of music and the willingness to try and get the best sound out of the equipment (and room) that you have. In fact, it is likely easier to significantly improve your sound on a less expensive system than a really expensive one. And the biggest improvements often come from understanding and doing some things that cost nothing, or very little, such as

    - speaker placement
    - sound dispersion vs absorption (aka room treatment)
    - clean power
    - cable management
    - footers (what your equipment sits on, yes it actually makes a difference)
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    Which is what I'm trying to do. Work with what I have and at the same time, employ upgrades. I am aware that at times I do ask some rather elementary questions which may not be in keeping with the spirit of the thread. But not being born an audiophile, how else can I learn if I don't ask questions. Low-fi, mid-fi or audiophile is not the question or point. Simply improving what I have is my focus. The knowledge curve here is such that I feel confident, if I continue to listen and take advise given, in the end my system will be improved. It all has little to do with dollars and cents but learning enough to make better decisions.
    The older I get, the better I was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    My understanding is that this is an Audiophile thread. Not a Mid-Fi thread.

    Denon makes beautiful mid-fi gear. At least they used to. Haven't followed them in years.
    Laser and Bob, if you have a moment, could you give me your assessment of the Audio Research PH8 phono stage. My handy dandy TT guy brought this to my attention.
    The older I get, the better I was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    Mid-Fi or not. The question was about whether High Definition audio (DSD) could be streamed electronically. On Denon's high end players, it is possible. Your definition of Audiophile appears to be cast in the elitism of the price tag. I agree that the price tag needs to be big for the ultimate in speakers, however that's only because the user doesn't understand technology and allocates the responsibility to the speaker. There are solutions which don't require the ultimate in price tag in speakers, but a broader understanding than it takes to spend a huge amount of money on the house and the speakers.
    I get what you are saying and truth be told I quickly jotted down a response to your comment and should have phased it better. My definition of audiophile is not rooted in the elitism of price tag. An audiophile is anyone who is interested in better sound reproduction. Everyone has a different definition of "better". I can tell you that there is a direct correlation between the amount of money spent on your system (as a whole) and the quality of sound reproduction. Does diminishing returns set in after a certain price point? Absolutely. Everyone jumps off the curve at different places.

    Denon may well in fact have a proprietary system for transmitting hi-resolution audio wirelessly. Denon makes very nice mid-range equipment. I used to own some of it in my office system years ago but I don't follow what they do now since I have no interest in anything beyond 2 channel and Denon is a marginal player in this area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Staun View Post
    Laser and Bob, if you have a moment, could you give me your assessment of the Audio Research PH8 phono stage. My handy dandy TT guy brought this to my attention.
    Lots and lots of tube phono stages out there. You can make yourself crazy auditioning them. I think Audio Research PH8 would be a very safe and sound choice. Is there better? Sure but who has the energy to try them all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    Lots and lots of tube phono stages out there. You can make yourself crazy auditioning them. I think Audio Research PH8 would be a very safe and sound choice. Is there better? Sure but who has the energy to try them all.
    I will quickly admit ignorance with a lot of technical specs, so this may be a dumb question, but are you really getting that much out of two tubes? For those who are looking for the 'analogue sound,' I find it hard to imagine you get much from this. But as I said, I could easily be wrong there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pr33t View Post
    I will quickly admit ignorance with a lot of technical specs, so this may be a dumb question, but are you really getting that much out of two tubes? For those who are looking for the 'analogue sound,' I find it hard to imagine you get much from this. But as I said, I could easily be wrong there.
    Well, I'm certainly relying on those who have much more knowledge than I. AR is said to be good with stages. My guys here thought it was something I should think about and of course Laser chipped in. You see where he says it's a "safe" choice.
    The older I get, the better I was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pr33t View Post
    I will quickly admit ignorance with a lot of technical specs, so this may be a dumb question, but are you really getting that much out of two tubes? For those who are looking for the 'analogue sound,' I find it hard to imagine you get much from this. But as I said, I could easily be wrong there.
    Mike I have no tubes. I feel as though I'm getting the "analogue sound" from my vinyl playback. What were your impressions?

    Frankly the lower the number of tubes the less noise is introduced into the chain. If I were to buy a tube phono stage, two tubes sounds like the right number to me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    Mike I have no tubes. I feel as though I'm getting the "analogue sound" from my vinyl playback. What were your impressions?

    Frankly the lower the number of tubes the less noise is introduced into the chain. If I were to buy a tube phono stage, two tubes sounds like the right number to me!
    It's a conspiracy. No tubes, one tube, two tubes. One more thing to make me nuts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    Mike I have no tubes. I feel as though I'm getting the "analogue sound" from my vinyl playback. What were your impressions?

    Frankly the lower the number of tubes the less noise is introduced into the chain. If I were to buy a tube phono stage, two tubes sounds like the right number to me!
    I certainly think you have it, but you also have inherently better components, by a long-shot. The way I would look at it in my system is that it is a more direct way for me to get that sound with what I have at my disposal. In essence, it's a shortcut where I'm introducing more of that sound from tubes because my other pieces can't produce it as well. If I can't get the clarity of your system, I'd rather have the coloring that makes mine sound most appealing.

    Isn't the general idea of 'analogue' sound that it is distortion, but noise that is often considered pleasurable to the way we hear it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    Lots and lots of tube phono stages out there. You can make yourself crazy auditioning them. I think Audio Research PH8 would be a very safe and sound choice. Is there better? Sure but who has the energy to try them all.
    Totally agree. All the various iterations of Audio Research phono stages are pretty good. You won't be sorry with any of them, even going back 10-20 years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    Mike I have no tubes. I feel as though I'm getting the "analogue sound" from my vinyl playback. What were your impressions?

    Frankly the lower the number of tubes the less noise is introduced into the chain. If I were to buy a tube phono stage, two tubes sounds like the right number to me!
    Ha ha, my phono stage has 8 tubes (Hagerman Trumpet). Overkill? Perhaps, but that's the design (dual mono and each tube stage has another as a cathode follower). 4 tubes in my preamp. Personally, I prefer a tubed phono stage over SS. But I've heard both bad and excellent sound from both styles over the years.

    Yes, I do get some tube rush with he needle out of the groove, but it is worth it to me for the overall presentation when music is playing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobM View Post
    Ha ha, my phono stage has 8 tubes (Hagerman Trumpet). Overkill? Perhaps, but that's the design (dual mono and each tube stage has another as a cathode follower). 4 tubes in my preamp. Personally, I prefer a tubed phono stage over SS. But I've heard both bad and excellent sound from both styles over the years.

    Yes, I do get some tube rush with he needle out of the groove, but it is worth it to me for the overall presentation when music is playing.
    I have a friend who loves his Aesthetix Rhea. Loves it to death. Wouldn't give it up for the world...but all I hear from him is complaints about tube rush, ordering NOS tubes from guys in Hong Kong.

    Check please!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    I have a friend who loves his Aesthetix Rhea. Loves it to death. Wouldn't give it up for the world...but all I hear from him is complaints about tube rush, ordering NOS tubes from guys in Hong Kong.

    Check please!
    Love hate relationship. Maybe his problems are else where. Wrong tubes for his unit or maybe the unit itself has problems. I know that using tubes may cause you to hear rush but it shouldn't be enough to interfere with the sound.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staun View Post
    Love hate relationship. Maybe his problems are else where. Wrong tubes for his unit or maybe the unit itself has problems. I know that using tubes may cause you to hear rush but it shouldn't be enough to interfere with the sound.
    Its a documented flaw with that model. He's conditioned himself to listen through it. The rest of his system is Jeff Rowland and MBL solid state. Its the phono stage. It would last in my system about 5 minutes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    Its a documented flaw with that model. He's conditioned himself to listen through it. The rest of his system is Jeff Rowland and MBL solid state. Its the phono stage. It would last in my system about 5 minutes.
    Knowing it's flawed and still won't let go. "Conditioned himself to listen through it", is most interesting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    Its a documented flaw with that model. He's conditioned himself to listen through it. The rest of his system is Jeff Rowland and MBL solid state. Its the phono stage. It would last in my system about 5 minutes.
    Is it so bad he hears it while playing things? I'm the same as Bob - I can somewhat hear it when the needle is out of the groove, but it's never anything that interferes with playback (I realize it does have an effect, just not one that my ears can hear or quantify).

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    I think if he was using a higher output cartridge it might be less noticeable but with his setup you can actually hear it in quiet passages.

    Me? I need dead silence. Jet black.

    There will be a new phono stage on the market in about 6 months that promises to be a game changer. I'll be an alpha and beta tester for it.

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    Would not a higher output cart cause more noise? Is he sure the noise he is hearing are the tubes or could it be a bad cart connection? With my Dynavector I hear as close to jet black as I have ever heard. Sound just seems to come out of thin air. Here I agree with you. He must have a connection problem somewhere. Can you say anymore about the new stage?
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  23. #823
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    Higher output cartridge means lower gain needed from the phono stage. Quieter. (In theory).

    The tube rush in the Aesthetix Rhea is a documented issue.

    Can't discuss the new phono.

  24. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    Higher output cartridge means lower gain needed from the phono stage. Quieter. (In theory).

    The tube rush in the Aesthetix Rhea is a documented issue..
    Not surprising, a thread about Aesthetix Rhea is the first result when you google "tube rush" - http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable...p?f=19&t=46497

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    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    Higher output cartridge means lower gain needed from the phono stage. Quieter. (In theory).

    The tube rush in the Aesthetix Rhea is a documented issue.

    Can't discuss the new phono.
    Glad you said, "in theory". When I used MM carts, and they were higher output than my MC carts, the s/n ratio was lower. I would hear all sorts of things coming from the speakers.
    The older I get, the better I was.

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