The Audiophile Thread

[Pr33t]

That's an old shot. What you don't see behind the sofa is a line of 5 crates holding albums. You can see some of the albums on the floor on the left hand side. The main collection is in the library upstairs. I am constantly shuttling vinyl up and down. Mostly down.

Not only am I jealous of a lot of your systems, I'm jealous of all the space you guys have! My collection has now spilled over into my bedroom, not to mention all the piles on the floor.

[strawberrybrick]

I got a great room, but oh how I envy those systems!

[BobM]

I was always interested in the Boulder stuff Laser, but that is way above my price point. Must sound sweet with the Rockports (also above my price point)!

[LASERCD]

Bob:

Boulder electronics are insanely wonderful and I couldn't think of changing. For years I shuffled back and forth between tube and solid state gear. I went from an all Krell system to Jadis and Sonic Frontiers. Tubes drove me nuts so I switched over to Rowland. Got some of my sanity back. Eventually migrated to the Boulder 1010 preamp and while I was planning on a a 1060 amplifer a deal I couldn't pass up for a 2060 fell into my lap (it was Sound By Singer's store demo and they lost the dealership so they dumped it on me). Last year I replaced the 1010 with the 2010.

I went on what I called my speaker quest about 4 years ago. I demoed many speakers - Wilson, Verity Audio, German Physiks, Sonus Faber ao. Some good and a lot of bad. Once I heard the Rockport Aquila it was game over. The combination with Boulder is magical. In Q3, Andy Payor is going to bring to market the replacement to the Aquila. Its called the Cygnus. My friend heard it at CES and he told me to start thinking about selling the Aquila. Not what I wanted to hear but I plan on taking a road trip up to Maine to hear them.

I'm in South Jersey. If you ever want to take a road trip down to hear the system you are welcome.

Ken

[Staun]

I was always interested in the Boulder stuff Laser, but that is way above my price point. Must sound sweet with the Rockports (also above my price point)!

Well, for my 850 mono blocks, 200 watts, the sound is clean and transparent. They've got some miles but haven't failed me yet. You need a crane to move'em but whatever. But I think he's into something different than just wattage.

[Staun]

Bob:

Boulder electronics are insanely wonderful and I couldn't think of changing. For years I shuffled back and forth between tube and solid state gear. I went from an all Krell system to Jadis and Sonic Frontiers. Tubes drove me nuts so I switched over to Rowland. Got some of my sanity back. Eventually migrated to the Boulder 1010 preamp and while I was planning on a a 1060 amplifer a deal I couldn't pass up for a 2060 fell into my lap (it was Sound By Singer's store demo and they lost the dealership so they dumped it on me). Last year I replaced the 1010 with the 2010.

I went on what I called my speaker quest about 4 years ago. I demoed many speakers - Wilson, Verity Audio, German Physiks, Sonus Faber ao. Some good and a lot of bad. Once I heard the Rockport Aquila it was game over. The combination with Boulder is magical. In Q3, Andy Payor is going to bring to market the replacement to the Aquila. Its called the Cygnus. My friend heard it at CES and he told me to start thinking about selling the Aquila. Not what I wanted to hear but I plan on taking a road trip up to Maine to hear them.

I'm in South Jersey. If you ever want to take a road trip down to hear the system you are welcome.

Ken

I'd like to know more about Krell preamps since I'd like to do something this summer. I'm told they are very good.

[LASERCD]

Avoid Krell. Once they had a coup and kicked out founder/designer Dan D'Agostino the quality of Krell has plummeted. If you want a good match for your Boulder 850 monoblocks buy their 810 preamp. The 8-series gives you great bang for the buck.

[Staun]

Avoid Krell. Once they had a coup and kicked out founder/designer Dan D'Agostino the quality of Krell has plummeted. If you want a good match for your Boulder 850 monoblocks buy their 810 preamp. The 8-series gives you great bang for the buck.

Thanks Laser. This is exactly the kind of help I need. When I look at all the preamp choices, my head shuts down. You know, the biggest fear I have is, I've had the same sound for years and as soon as I change something, it's going to be different, for better or worse. I've had my Counterpoint preamp for a long time and it needs to be updated. Same with my Boulders. I'll need to change them out sooner rather than later. A piece at a time but it still feels like starting over.

[Rael]

You mean the Audio Research CD9? I don't think I've heard it but in the past I've never been impressed by any of their digital products.

Sorry, yes, I meant the Audio Research. What are you using for a digital front end, Ken?

[LASERCD]

Thanks Laser. This is exactly the kind of help I need. When I look at all the preamp choices, my head shuts down. You know, the biggest fear I have is, I've had the same sound for years and as soon as I change something, it's going to be different, for better or worse. I've had my Counterpoint preamp for a long time and it needs to be updated. Same with my Boulders. I'll need to change them out sooner rather than later. A piece at a time but it still feels like starting over.

Those Boulder amps should last you another 20 years. Only reason to get rid of them is to upgrade to a 1060 stereo amp.

[Staun]

Those Boulder amps should last you another 20 years. Only reason to get rid of them is to upgrade to a 1060 stereo amp.

I'm sorry, I just swallowed my tongue and that price point.

[LASERCD]

Sorry, yes, I meant the Audio Research. What are you using for a digital front end, Ken?

I have two sources - a MSB Technologies UMT transport (which I will sell soon) and a modified Mac Mini which is running off of a Red Wine Audio Black Lightning battery power supply. For a DAC I'm using the Bricasti M1. Connection is via a Synergistic Research Active USB cable. Digital files are stored in another room on a Synology DS1812+ and fed to the Mac Mini via standard Cat6.

[Jerjo]

I have two sources - a MSB Technologies UMT transport (which I will sell soon) and a modified Mac Mini which is running off of a Red Wine Audio Black Lightning battery power supply. For a DAC I'm using the Bricasti M1. Connection is via a Synergistic Research Active USB cable. Digital files are stored in another room on a Synology DS1812+ and fed to the Mac Mini via standard Cat6.

so what are you going to replace the MSB with? Which medium are you playing the most of: digital files, vinyl, or CDs? I end up listening to the majority of my music through digital files in my home office just because I'm there most of the time and while I can set up a laptop in the living room to play CDs it gets to be a pain sitting there for too long. I think when I upgrade the living room system I'll move some of the components into the office. There was a time when I had a turntable set up in the office and man, I played so much vinyl. I miss that arrangement.

[Jerjo]

Stan:

Bob is saying something different. In setting up your cartridge you had to raise the tonearm to accomodate the Dynavector. This is normal. You want your tonearm to be perfectly parallel to the surface of the vinyl (platter). If the Dynavector cartridge is taller than the Rega you have to raise the arm. The ideal stylus rake angle (meaning stylus to vinyl) is 92 degrees. Vinyl comes in all different thickness. You need to compensate for the thickness by adjusting the VTA. Not all tonearms allow you to adjust VTA. Some can do it on the fly.

If you play an album that is 100 grams and then one that is 180 there is a wide variance in proper VTA. Personally I'm in what Mr. Carlberg would call the "woo woo" zone. I weigh and adjust VTA for each album. To me its readily apparent. YMMV.

Here is a nice reference site I came across that might help: http://www.vinylzone.com/cartalign.asp#vta

So how much work is involved in adjusting for each album, how fine is the adjustment? Is there a standard setting for non-audiophile LPs, do all the 180 grams have the same setting? I've only got about a dozen 180g LPs right now and they're all just idle until I get a new table bought and set up. I'm just curious how much is involved if you adjust for each album.

[LASERCD]

So how much work is involved in adjusting for each album, how fine is the adjustment? Is there a standard setting for non-audiophile LPs, do all the 180 grams have the same setting? I've only got about a dozen 180g LPs right now and they're all just idle until I get a new table bought and set up. I'm just curious how much is involved if you adjust for each album.

The problem is a 180 gram album isn't 180 grams. It could be 174 or 186. How easy it is to adjust depends on the tonearm. My friend has a VPI arm and based on the markings for VTA adjustment its quite simple. For my arm it was initially a bit of a pain in the ass but I muddle through it. I have a friend who claims he can hear the difference of a 1 gram adjustment. My hearing isn't quite that good (BTW - I doubt his claim).

[LASERCD]

so what are you going to replace the MSB with? Which medium are you playing the most of: digital files, vinyl, or CDs? I end up listening to the majority of my music through digital files in my home office just because I'm there most of the time and while I can set up a laptop in the living room to play CDs it gets to be a pain sitting there for too long. I think when I upgrade the living room system I'll move some of the components into the office. There was a time when I had a turntable set up in the office and man, I played so much vinyl. I miss that arrangement.

Once I bought the new turntable I shifted my primary listening over to vinyl. I don't find myself playing a lot of my old CDs too often (I became a hoarder and have thousands). Every once in awhile I binge and rip aiff files to the server. Mostly the CDs are just there. Its not a anti-CD thing or anything like that. Its more boredom with my collection I guess as my musical taste has shifted a little bit over the years. Don't really have a lot of desire to play that Aguarturbia or Moonkyte CD. Just taking up space.

When I do play digital I'm in heaven. Only thing beter is my vinyl play back. BTW - just listened to the 24/96 files of King Crimson - Live At The Orpheum. Amazing!

[rcarlberg]

The problem is a 180 gram album isn't 180 grams. It could be 174 or 186. How easy it is to adjust depends on the tonearm. My friend has a VPI arm and based on the markings for VTA adjustment its quite simple. For my arm it was initially a bit of a pain in the ass but I muddle through it. I have a friend who claims he can hear the difference of a 1 gram adjustment. My hearing isn't quite that good (BTW - I doubt his claim).

Are you talking about Vertical Tracking Angle, or Vertical Tracking Force?

[LASERCD]

Vertical tracking angle

[Pr33t]

Best I have at the moment, not being at home

Attachment 5055

Took a few more last night, though about the best quality I'll get with my lighting.

2015-03-06 22.30.58.jpg2015-03-06 22.31.17.jpg2015-03-06 22.31.24.jpg

[rcarlberg]

Vertical tracking angle

That's not measured in grams.

[LASERCD]

Correct it is not. That would be tracking force.

[Father Tiresias]

That's not measured in grams.

And in other news... The sun is hot, and the sea is wet.

[rcarlberg]

Correct it is not. That would be tracking force.

So can you explain what you meant when you said this?

My friend has a VPI arm and based on the markings for VTA adjustment its quite simple. For my arm it was initially a bit of a pain in the ass but I muddle through it. I have a friend who claims he can hear the difference of a 1 gram adjustment. My hearing isn't quite that good (BTW - I doubt his claim).

[LASERCD]

Robert I know you are dying to continue to thread crap so I'll indulge you, even though this was discussed earlier.

The objective is to maintain a stylus to vinyl contact angle of 92 degrees. To do this properly the tonearm would ideally be perfectly parallel to the surface of the vinyl. Here's ther problem...there is no uniformity to the thickness of vinyl pressings. There is a huge variance, depending on the pressing plant or era when it was pressed. There is no standard to the amount of vinyl used in pressing an LP. How can we tell which is thicker? One simple method is to weigh your vinyl. I have albums in my collection that weigh as little as 88 grams and as much as 210. Comparing these extreme examples you have one album that is about 2 1/2 times the weight - it will be thicker and affect the SRA. The way you can compensate is to adjust the vertical tracking angle (VTA). Weigh a 180 gram LP. It probably doesn't weigh 180. Might be 174. Might be 186. Grab an old RCA Dynaflex. They are so thin you can practically see through them.

Tonearm manufacturers approach VTA adjustment differently. Most use some type of dial with witness marks that allow you to make adjustments but you can get back to your reference mark. There are some tonearms such as the Graham that have a built in bubble level. The Reed tonearms from Lithuania actually have a built in laser.

So the obvious question, which I'm sure you will ask, is what about the density? Won't that affect the weight of the vinyl without a change in thickness? Turns out there are only a handful of manufacturers of the vinyl pellets. The formula they use don't vary all that much. Any variance in density is negligible.

So any reference to grams within the context of this thread's discussion of VTA relate to the weight of the albums and has nothing to do with vertical tracking force (VTF) which is also measured in grams. VTF is a separate discussion.

[rcarlberg]

Well yeah Ken, everything you say here is true. I guess I'm still unclear how you "adjust" the overall weight of an LP though.